super 45 tours dimension

• Forum Listing
• Marketplace
• Advanced Search
• Hardware & Accessories
• Reloading Bench - ARCHIVED

45 Super: Discussion and Load Data

• Add to quote

I'm taking the load and ballistic data I and others have posted on the 45 Super (hopefully the others won't mind) and placing it in this thread. I've been looking for info on the 45 Super for some time, and other than the Real Guns website, there's not a lot out there that I can find. The 10mm has really benefited from information sharing on the web, the 45 Super could benefit even more, as there's a real lack of information for this round. The moderator of this forum does not want a sticky, as he does not like them (I tend to agree), but if interested parties could occasionally add some data the thread should stay around for at least awhile.  

AA#9 Data 255 West Coast PFP - 13.0 grains AA#9 @ 1.24"OAL - Super brass - 983 fps 255 West Coast PFP - 13.2 grains AA#9 @ 1.24"OAL - Super brass - 965 fps 255 West Coast PFP - 13.4 grains AA#9 @ 1.24"OAL - Super brass - 985 fps 255 West Coast PFP - 13.6 grains AA#9 @ 1.24"OAL - Super brass - 1,008 fps At 13.6 grains the Super brass started showing larger expansion rings (although I don't have a big sample at this level). 13.4 grains gave more modest pressure signs and still did 985 fps. 13.0 grains also gave about 983 fps in the Super brass. From 13.0 to 13.1 there was actually a velocity drop, and then a climb back up to 985 @ 13.4 grains. Maybe the pressure curve changes as the case begins to reach capacity and the powder becomes more tightly packed(?). I did this load work-up using new Super brass and once fired Federal brass for comparison purposes. During the load work-up, the Super brass didn't seem much, if any stronger than the Federal, as both types exhibited similar pressure rings, but at one point (13.3 grains), the case above the web, on the Federal, started growing pretty suddenly (still no bulges, smileys, etc.), while the Super case seemed to hold itself together awhile longer. Standard ACP brass may be able to handle Super pressures, but it may not be a good idea to make a habit of it, or push it quite as hard as Super brass. I didn't go past 13.3 with the Federal brass, but even this brass didn't have a problem getting over 950 fps with the 255s, that's not too bad.  

AA#7, PowerPistol & AA#5 Data It should go without saying that even though these loads were fine in my pistol, these loads may not be safe in your pistol. If you use them, work up slowly. All of these loads exhibited pressure rings below those of the 13.6 grain AA#9 load I listed above. All loads used new Starline 45 Super brass, West Coast Plated Flat Point 255 grain bullets and Federal 150 primers. 11.0 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 975 fps 11.4 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1023 fps 11.6 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1025 fps 11.8 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1039fps 12.0 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1065 fps 12.2 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1079 fps 12.4 grains AA#7 @ 1.24"OAL - 1104 fps 8.3 grains Power Pistol @ 1.24"OAL - 1000 fps I got this load is from the RealGuns site, for 260 grain Speer bullet. Theirs is loaded longer, but the longest I can load this 255 is 1.24". Anyway, my velocity average came out to 1,000.5 fps, they list their load at 1,000 fps (go figure), so pressures are probably similar. Power Pistol is better than AA#9 as well, but not quite as good, it seems, as AA#7. However, compressing PP more may provide different results (see more PP data below) and still needs to be tested. 8.6 grains AA#5 @ 1.235"OAL - 901 fps This was a WAG load I made up at the last minute, as several souces give good numbers for #5. The load seems perfectly safe, but it was about 90 fps behind #7 for the same size pressure rings. As with the PP above, different lengths may give different results. More testing here wouldn't hurt either.  

800X and Long Shot Data All of these loads exhibited pressure rings about equal to, or (most often) below those of the above AA#7 loads, never higher, for similar velocities. So both of these powders seem about on par, or possibly a little better than AA#7 with respect to their pressure/velocity relationship. Another word of caution however: I had to limit each of these tests to ONE loaded cartridge for each load in order to get to the other powders I want to try. Not exactly the best data set, but I think it gives a good idea for a start. Nothing in the series appeared way out of the norm. All loads used new Starline 45 Super brass, West Coast Plated Flat Point 255 grain bullets, Federal 150 primers and 1.24" OAL. 7.6 grains 800X - 876 fps 8.6 grains 800X - - I'm guessin 970-990 I must have missed the Chrono Sorry. But pressure rings were still relatively small. 9.1 grains 800X @ - 1,045 fps 9.6 grains 800X - 1,108 fps 7.2 grains Longshot- 895 fps 8.2 grains Longshot- 985 fps 8.7 grains Longshot- 1,045 fps 9.2 grains Longshot- 1,108 fps The Longshot seemed like it gave slightly (and I mean slightly) smaller pressure rings, overall, than the 800X loads, but the brass from the 800X loads appeared the least worked over of any of the comparable loads, thus far.  

Power Pistol data from MAW Engr You might want to try 8.5 grs of Power Pistol, with the bullet seated to 1.200". This gave me 1130 fps. This is the load I have settled on for all 230-260 gr. bullets. It works well in all cases....All testing done with new 45 Super brass from Starline.  

Blue Dot and VV 3N37 Data All loads used new Starline 45 Super brass, West Coast Plated Flat Point 255 grain bullets, Federal 150 primers and 1.24" OAL. If you decide to try these, work up carefully. 8.8 grains Blue Dot - 929 fps 9.6 grains Blue Dot - 990 fps 10.4 grains Blue Dot - 1082 fps Blue Dot loads seemed to have about the same potential as AA#7 WRT the pressure/velocity relationship, maybe a bit better. Not quite up with 800X and Longshot. 6.5 grains 3N37 - 739 fps 8.0 grains 3N37 - 945 fps 8.5 grains 3N37 - 997 fps This is as far as I could get with 3N37, as I used my last piece of new brass on the 8.5 grain load. These 3N37 loads seem a bit worse WRT pressure/velocity than AA#7, but probably better than AA#9.  

45 Super Hollowpoint Performance (Not quite a full 45 Super load, probably a 45 ACP "+P+".) 250 grain .452" Gold Dot at 929 fps (7.0 grains Longshot) - 233 Power Factor - 70 Cal. expansion / 16" penetration Full expansion of bullet (petals folded almost to base of bullet). LARGE bullet path in media (1"-2" diameter). For comparison to this load in same media: 10mm. 200 XTP @ 1,210 - 242 PF - 55 Cal./19" & 60 Cal./17" My notes for the above 10mm load indicate good size path in media as well, but actual diameter of the path was not recorded. Similar 10mm loads have been reported to work well on black bear, so this 45 load would likely be successful in such (hunting) applications as well My testing media consists of two newspapers, folded in thirds and stood in open 1/2 gallon milk cartons. The cartons are filled with water and the newspapers are allowed to become fully saturated. Before shooting, the cartons are re-filled to the brim with water. All shots were fired through 4 layers of denim. I know this is not exactly calibrated ballistic gelatine, however, I've used this method a long time and have done many comparisons between my test results for factory ammo, and published gelatine results for the same ammo (or identical bullets at identical velocities). Penetration in this media is generally equal to, or up to 2" less than penetration in gelatine. Expansion is very similar, generally a little less in the newpaper media. At lower velocities, some bullets (i.e. Golden Sabers), shed their jackets more often in this media than in gelatine and can thus give poor comparisons.  

hi, i have found your discussions and loading data very interesting, i was wonderng if you have tried bluedot and any 230 grain bullets yet? edit: if i can get access to a chrono, im working up loads with 230 grian xtp's the allian site lists 9.8 grains of bluedot for a jhp at 915 fps, so thats where im going skip up to now. my previous data said 8.5 from lee modern reloading 2nd edition. 9.8 and 10 grain loads of blue dot i will be trying out but thats it untill i get some super brass. also using cci lpp, and oal is 1.240 as for the gun its a kimber custom 2, 25 lb hammer spring, 18.5, 20 or 24 lbs recoil spring, going to start heavy and reduce, 22 lb is sold out thats why im skipping it for now, and heavier fp spring, bulletproof fp and egw oversized fp stop. i have wilson and brown buffers to chew up to.  

creepyrat, I don't have any Blue Dot/230 grain info yet, but I'll post the little bit of 230 45 Super data I have. Hopefully you find it helpful. All following loads used once fired RP standard ACP brass from UMC ammo , West Coast Plated Round Nose 230 grain bullets, Winchester LP primers and 1.24" OAL. If you decide to try these, work up carefully. But with your pistol and the way you have it set up, I'd think it could handle these loads as well. 8.1 grains 800X - 952 fps 8.6 grains 800X - 974 fps 9.1 grains 800X - 1,015 fps 9.6 grains 800X - 1,112 fps I didn't post these as they were just single rounds I loaded while trying to get a starting point for loading 230 FPs with Super brass (I had planned on getting to 230 Flat Points and penetration testing this weekend, but I found out that, like an idiot, I accidentally picked up a box of RN FMC Hornadys instead of the FP FMC Hornadys. It'll be a week or two before I get to town to exchange them for the FP Hornadys). Anyway... The last load above (1,112 fps) had a rather large velocity spike and I don't know if that'll be consistent, but at that velocity, it was a full-on 45 Super load. I found it interesting that even with the once fired UMC brass, the expansion rings in these loads were comparable to the loads with new Starline 45 Super brass loaded with the 255 FP loads, at similar velocities. It seems that at least some standard ACP brass really can make Super levels with the right powder, without blowing up. At this point I'm not recommending it be done on a regular basis, but under the right conditions, it can obviously be done without disaster. It really makes me wonder about all the stories relating weak 45 ACP brass. More wives tales? I still don't know, but it's getting awfully suspicious . I've now got a bunch of different new 45 brass (and some 275 grain FPs on the way); I'll be doing more testing on 45 brass strength in my pistol over the next week or two and hopefully I'll also have some good 230 grain and 275 grain load data to post as well.  

im # 8 woohoo. Thanks for what info you have, i see midway is running short on 45 super brass i better grab some. i used once fired fiocchi for todays test cci lp primers 1.24 oal im trying to find some power pistol but everyones out, but 700 and 800 x are in 1/2 lb cans so i can pick some up cheap to try out. recoil was very managable.  

Attachments

45 ACP brass strength: Well then Walter, The other six and I can develop some loads while you sit and tend to your enlarged prostate. Sound fair enough? :biglaugh: (I will edit and re-use this post later this weekend for actual test results so as not to take the thread off on any tangents. Meanwhile, Walter can enjoy my quick wit. BTW Walter, if you don't have anything constructive to add...well, like I said, there's always the prostate to keep you busy. Or maybe you can share your 45 Super Duper Glock Exploding data with us!) 45 Brass Data I wanted to look into the various claims about 45 brass I've been hearing for ages. Here's what I found, hopefully it's useful. Brass Expansion I made a series of loads with 800X (7.6 grains, 8.1 grains, 8.6 grains, 9.1 grains) and the 255 PFP bullets. For each load I used the following brass: New Starline ACP New Starline ACP +P New Starline 45 Super New Remington 45 ACP +P Nickel Once Fired Remington 45 ACP, from UMC. The average velocity for the series for each type of brass was as follows: New Starline ACP 964 fps New Starline ACP +P 989 fps New Starline 45 Super 986 fps New Remington 45 ACP +P Nickel 990 fps Once Fired Remington 45 ACP, from UMC. 989 fps The brass that gave the least expansion was Starline 45 Super, Remington 45 ACP +P and the Once fired Remington UMC. The Remington +P showed smallest numbers overall, especially for the two largest loads. The UMC was very close as well, and remember, this was once fired brass. The Starline 45 ACP and Starline 45 ACP +P consistently showed the greatest case expansion. None of the brass showed any "smileys" or other serious pressure signs, while all reached at least 1,050 fps with the 255s and the 9.1 grain load, which is almost certainly in the "45 Super" pressure range. Case Dimensions - A few Suprises here. I measured the following 45 brass: Federal (American Eagle) Remington (UMC) Remington Nickel Remington +P Nickel Starline ACP Starline ACP +P Starline 45 Super (first batch I purchased and second batch) Winchester +P And the following 10mm brass: Federal (American Eagle) 10mm Starline 10mm For the 45 brass and the Starline 10mm brass I took the following measurements: Case Head Thickness Wall thickness at top of case head Height above base for the following wall thicknesses (0.050", 0.040", 0.030"). (I thought measuring this way would give a good idea of each case's internal taper.) I only measured case head thickness for the Federal 10mm as I did not want to take the time to section this case, and the 10mm has to be sectioned in order to fit my calipers for measuring. Here's what I found: Case Head Thickness Federal (American Eagle) 0.162" Remington (UMC) 0.163" Remington Nickel 0.162" Remington +P Nickel 0.159" Starline ACP 0.159" Starline ACP +P 0.161" Starline 45 Super (1st batch) 0.189" Starline 45 Super (2nd batch) 0.174" Winchester +P 0.181" 10mm brass: Federal (American Eagle) 0.181" Starline 10mm 0.174" As you can see, there's a fair amount of variation. Starline 45 Super seems to be about the same, at least, as their 10mm brass. I'm sure as well that there is a certain amount of variation even within the same lot of brass, but I think this gives a good snapshot of the general trends. Wall Thickness at top of case head Federal (American Eagle) 0.055" Remington (UMC) 0.054" Remington Nickel 0.056" Remington +P Nickel 0.054" Starline ACP 0.050" Starline ACP +P 0.065" Starline 45 Super (1st batch) 0.056" Starline 45 Super (2nd batch) 0.050" Winchester +P 0.070" 10mm brass: Starline 10mm 0.050" Height above base for wall thickness of 0.050" 0.040" 0.030" Federal (American Eagle) . . 0.186" 0.195" 0.248" Remington (UMC) . . . . . 0.185" 0.200" 0.262" Remington Nickel . . . . . 0.182" 0.190" 0.252" Remington +P Nickel . . . . 0.185" 0.202 0.251" Starline ACP . . . . . . . 0.159" 0.170" 0.200" Starline ACP +P . . . . . . 0.182" 0.215" 0.295" Starline 45 Super (1st batch) 0.186" 0.211" 0.260" Starline 45 Super (2nd batch) 0.174" 0.200" 0.225" Winchester +P . . . . . . 0.196" 0.210" 0.246" 10mm brass: Starline 10mm . . . . . . . 0.174" 0.188"* 0.221" *note: my original post had 0.168", should have been what's above. The higher the number in the above comparison the thicker the brass. Starline +P was the thickest, Starline ACP was the thinnest. All of the others were fairly similar (although the Win. +P does stand out from the crowd). Except for the Starline ACP, all the 45 brass had thicker case walls than the 10mm. I should add though that most of the 45 brass I measured was either new or only used once or twice. The sectioned Starline case had been loaded a few times (I didn't section it for this test). If I have time I'll section a new Starline 10mm case, but I don't think there will be a big difference. Also, do remember that case walls are not perfectly concentric and there are variations even within the same case, but these numbers give another good snapshot. My current thoughts on 45 case strength: 1. There's a great deal of variation from different manufacturers and perhaps even different lots from the same manufacturer. Manufacturers know this and probably tend to overbuild cases so that even the weakest of the cases are strong enough. 2. It might be easier for some companies to build one case and use different head stamps for all of their loads. That may explain the similarity (and strength) of the Remington cases. 3. Don't assume any 45 brass is as strong as 45 Super brass from Starline, but if one is willing to do some testing, there may be cheaper brass that is as strong, or even stronger than Starline 45 Super brass. An advantage with the 45 Super brass is that you can be somewhat assured that someone that knows what they're doing has already checked the batch of brass for you. 4. It appears to me that there are at least a few common types of 45 ACP and ACP +P brass that are about as good, or maybe even better than 45 Super brass. After my testing, I would be as comfortable (maybe even more so) with my Remington Nickel 45 ACP +P brass for 45 Super loads than with my 45 Super brass. I would be even more comfortable with the Winchester Nickel 45 ACP +P brass. I didn't have enough of the Winchester +P to test, but the couple of tests that I did with it over the last two weeks (it stretched less than the 45 Super brass even though it was once fired), and the measurements of the brass I took this weekend, have convinced me that this is some strong stuff. I like the fact that this brass is very thick at the base (where it needs to be) and not overly thick higher up, providing more case capacity. It also has one of the thickest case heads of all of the 45 brass measured. I do not think that the Starline ACP +P is all that suitable for Super loads. It expanded significantly more than the Super brass in my pistol. I'm not saying it was near failure, as there's a lot of brass in this case (more than any other measured), but for whatever reason, it stretches more than most (softer, maybe?) I would totally avoid the Starline ACP brass for Super loads. It did handle moderate 45 Super levels in my pistol, but it really started stretching and there's just not that much brass is this case to be stretched. Not worth the risk, IMO. So, how strong is 45 brass? Well, 460 Rowland brass is loaded to about 39,000 psi. 45 Super brass is apparently the same as 460 Rowland brass, just shorter (I still need to confirm this, though) Some 45 ACP and ACP +P brass keeps right up with 45 Super brass at 45 Super levels. Most 45 brass is as thick (or thicker) than 10mm brass, although the case heads are often thinner. However, I think in an auto pistol, the case wall is the limiting factor, not the case head. Obviously,due to all of the variation from different manufacturers, there's no one answer as to 45 ACP brass strength. But I think the strength of at least some 45 ACP/ACP +P brass (e.g. the Winchester +P), has more in common with 37,500 psi 10mm brass, than it does to some case designed not to exceed 21,000 or 23,000 psi. It's not nearly as wimpy as many seem to think. Regardless of the exact strength of the brass, with 45 Super or other brass of comparable strength, I think 45 Super guns are in reality limited by the ultimate strength of the platform, not the strength of the brass.  

Thegman said: Well then Walter, The other six and I can develop some loads while you sit and tend to your enlarged prostate. Sound fair enough? :biglaugh: (I will edit and re-use this post later this weekend for actual test results so as not to take the thread off on any tangents. Meanwhile, Walter can enjoy my quick wit. BTW Walter, if you don't have anything constructive to add...well, like I said, there's always the prostate to keep you busy. Or maybe you can share your 45 Super Duper Glock Exploding data with us!) Click to expand...

I dunno, I might be number 9. I have a S&W 4506 that seems to serve very little purpose in my arsenal.  

I have worked up a 45 super load for my s&w 625 giving PF 275 for a norwegian national program called 'magnum 2', this is what it came to : 255 gr LFP, 11.9 gr vvn105, oal 1.29" giving 1081 fps. This is a pleasantshooting and accurat load. It will not chamber a 1911 though (to do that I had to back down to 11.2 gr and oal 1.225 giving 1098 fps). I also have load data for 230gr LRN giving 275 PF, but this load was only accurate in 1911, not i 625.  

10mmfan said: I have worked up a 45 super load for my s&w 625 giving PF 275 for a norwegian national program called 'magnum 2', this is what it came to : 255 gr LFP, 11.9 gr vvn105, oal 1.29" giving 1081 fps. This is a pleasantshooting and accurat load. It will not chamber a 1911 though (to do that I had to back down to 11.2 gr and oal 1.225 giving 1098 fps). I also have load data for 230gr LRN giving 275 PF, but this load was only accurate in 1911, not i 625. Click to expand...

Thegman, 1) brass is starline 45 super, 2) yes, I meassure preassure rings, but they are only .472". The 625 chamber is a bit strighter (parallell) than the 1911 chamber, but is .481" in head end and that is where the walls are the thinnest (cylinder bolt cutout). My estimate is the stress on cylinder is the greatest .5 -.9" inside chamber. My yearly shooting of this load will not exceed 500 rnd's. 3) no experience with 3n38. 230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 12.3 gr n105, oal 1.275 giving 1200 fps. 230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 12.4 gr n105, oal 1.275 giving 1231 fps. Accurate in 1911, but no fun to shoot, to much kick. Theese loads keyholed in 625, probably skidded lands due to freeflight and too soft bullet  

Clark said: Do a load work up in this until the brass fails: Click to expand...

Full hard CDA 260 cartridge brass must be consistant, no matter who extrudes it in to a 45acp case. Click to expand...

10mmfan said: . 230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 12.3 gr n105, oal 1.275 giving 1200 fps. 230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 12.4 gr n105, oal 1.275 giving 1231 fps. Accurate in 1911, but no fun to shoot, to much kick. Theese loads keyholed in 625, probably skidded lands due to freeflight and too soft bullet Click to expand...

Clark said: I don't think the rifle tests for feed ramp case bulge susceptablity, but does test for extractor groove expansion that leads to primers falling out. Click to expand...

The problem I have with 45acp in pistols, is that the recoil is so severe before the primer falls out, that I can't stand it. Click to expand...

For feed ramp case bulge, Starline +P 45acp brass is the best I have found. Click to expand...

I have tested N105 to see how much power I can get with overloads in 40 S&W, 9x23mm, and 7.62x25mm. I found it to be the poorest choice of all powders tested each time. I don't know, but suspect, it would not be any better in 45acp. Click to expand...

thankyou that is some interesting and quite handy info, i guess the calipers and i will be doing some work today lol well i unexpectly recieved my new springs from brownells so still without a chrono, i decided to fire a few bluedot loads, 10.2 grains of bluedot, 230 xtp once fired fiocchi case cci primer. mostly it was to look at the case after firing with the 20 lb spring and an eb buffer the case hits the slide on the way out just above the flare on the ejection port. no smiley faces no pushed out primers or bad signs. i also used a factory kimber mag just to see if it would function with these loads as i have heard extra power mag springs are needed sometimes. i will have to say those xtps are tough bullets, fired one into sand and it didnt loose anyting but one copper petal.  

creepyrat said: 10.2 grains of bluedot, 230 xtp once fired fiocchi case cci primer. Click to expand...

... case after firing with the 20 lb spring and an eb buffer the case hits the slide on the way out just above the flare on the ejection port.... Click to expand...

i will measure, load and remasure some fiocchi cases tomorrow or the next day. i was thinking of trying a heavier recoil spring to see if that would solve the denting but its seems go have become less of an issue with the super brass i got in the mail today. using a kimber custom II pretty much factory except for spring upgrades and egw fp stop. i have loaded 230 xtp's and magtec ball now neither had any scarey pressure signs at 10.2 i only plan to take it up to around 1100 so if im there already it appears to be a very safe load as long as you check your oal and powder throws often. i have used 1.24 oal for all loads. next i will be trying unique it what i have onhand, im almost completly out of bluedot, going to save the little bit i have left for the chrono to see what my original loads were like. also looking for power pistol but everyone is out localy. edit: well i cut a fiocchi case inhalf today with the dremmel being as percise as possible. had it mounted in a adjustable hobby press thing. case head .160 to .163 case wall thickness at the bevel of the case, head .045 (thinnest part possibly found down that low) case wall thickness .010 to .030 above the bevel .054 i dont think ill be using these for anything past 10 grains of bluedot. another question how many times do you reload your super case's?  

Thanks, gentlemen, for sharing the fruits of your diligence. .45 Super sure seems to be shaping up to be about the most practical and viable "magnum load" for a 1911.  

More 230 grain data I've been in a holding pattern for a week waiting for my 275s, so in the mean time I've entertained myself with some 230 loads. Blue Dot The following used, West Coast PRN 230 grain bullets, new Starline 45 Super brass, Federal 150 primers and were loaded to 1.24" 10.2 Grains Blue Dot - 1,000 fps 10.6 Grains Blue Dot - 1,042 fps 11.0 Grains Blue Dot - 1,111 fps I've had to build a new expansion ring baseline with my new batch of 45 Super brass (shorter case head, thinner case walls = more expansion with same loads). I think my first batch of Super brass was a little stronger. Anyway, these loads don't appear to cause any more case expansion than the other Super level loads I've been loading. AA#7 Loads The following used, West Coast PRN 230 grain bullets, new Starline 45 Super brass, Federal 150 primers and were loaded to 1.22" (from posted Triton data) 13.0 Grains - 1,088 fps 13.5 Grains - 1,168 fps Appeared to have about the same expansion as the 255s loaded to 1,100 fps with AA#7; no smileys or anything of that nature. The 13.5 load is the max 230 AA#7 load from the Triton data that Clark posted. Triton listed the 13.5 grain load as 1,108 fps, I got about 60 fps more than that. For my pistol, I'd back off on that load to about 13.1, maybe 13.2, in order to hit 1,100 with the 230s.  

Clark said: The man at Starline told me the same stuff about how 460 Rowland brass and 45 Super brass are getting an extra heat treat, but I cannot find any extra strength in 45 Super brass. Click to expand...

The Starline +P 45acp brass is a different story. In my poorly supporte Para Ord P10, it gets me up to 45 Super levels. Click to expand...

• ?            
• 208K members

Top Contributors this Month

Understanding vinyl formats and standards - the practical guide for beginners

33 rpm, 45 rpm, ep, 12-inch, lp, single ....

You are stepping into the vinyl record universe and you are puzzled by the different names you hear. This article is designed for you...

Most frequent standards:

12-inch vinyl record = 33rpm = album - Lp = diameter size of 30 centimeters.

7-inch vinyl record = 45rpm = SP = diameter size of 17,8 centimeters.

In a 12-inch (30 centimeters) cover, you find:

most often an album 33rpm or LP , with two sides lasting 20 to 30 minutes each.

sometimes a maxi-single or EP with one track on each side lasting about 10 to 12 minutes.

In a 7-inch (17 -18 centimètres) cover, you find: 

most often a SP or Single with one track on each side.

less frequently an  EP providing more than two tracks.

Further details

Different glossaries overlap and interfere with one another.

Names in inch  refer to dimensions :

• 7-inch stands for a vinyl with a diameter of 17,78 centimeters.
• 10-inch  stands for a vinyl with a diameter of 25,4 centimeters.
• 12-inch stands for a vinyl with a diameter of 30,48 centimeters.

Names with rpm indicate rotation speed:

About some characteristics of the 33rpm:.

• Gatefold albums have a special cover which can be opened in two like the one of a book. There are also double albums , triple albums or vinyl box set .

About a few exceptions

45rpm or 45  tours in french :.

The  single or  SP « Single Play »  contains one tracks per side. 

EP or Extended Play or Super 45 tours (in French) is a vinyl record with more than 2 tracks on each side in a 7-inch size, rarely released nowadays. In the U.K. usually they have a one track side A and 2 tracks side B. In France, n the 50'ies and 60'ies, they released Super 45 tours with two or three songs on each sides. 

The  Maxi-Single  ( Maxi-45 tours  or  Maxi  in France) is a large size 12-inch (30 cm) vinyl record. Its listening time is about 10 to 12 minutes. The recording usually includes only one track per side. They were initially addressed to DJ's.

SP, EP, LP, are English names that indicates the lisenng time and the number of tracks. 

• SP = Single Play : one track per side whatever the dimension of the vinyl, 7-inch or  12-inch 
• EP = Extended Play : a 7-inch vinyl record - 45rpm with more than 2 tracks
• LP = Long Play : a 12-inch album or 33rpm vinyl.

Another standard, another technology, the 78rpm...

Also called the 78s , they are the oldtimers of the record world. They do not belong to the same category as the 45rpm or the 33rpm. They were made of  shellac  resin es instead of  vinyl.  The grooves on the 78s were much larger than the later microgrooves of LPs and 45s and the needles were larger too. 78s were recorded and played back ‘acoustically’, without any electric amplifiers or microphone.  The microgrooves are about 4 to 6 times smaller than the old 78s grooves. Therefore it is possible to put more of them on a record side and to obtain a longer track. The microgroove technology gives access to stereophony, helps reduce background noises and improves the sound quality.

The 78s is developped along with gramophones and phonographs, mechanical devices for reading music. Instead of a stylus, there was a big needle for the reading of the sound. The 78s is the means of musical broadcasting during the 1920s to 1950s era, after which the microgrooves supplanted it. The 78s are heavy, thick, black discs, with various diameters from 10 to 12-inch and paper sleeves characterized by a large hole in their middle.

Recordings were usually one track per side. The 10-inch ones, lasting about 3 minutes were dedicated to popular songs and the 12-inch, lasting 5 minutes to classical music.

• Forum Listing
• Marketplace
• Advanced Search

Glocktalk is a forum community dedicated to Glock enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Glock pistols and rifles, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, and more!

The All-New Big .45 SUPER Thread!

• Add to quote

Oh, please post pics of your .45 Super setups! I have been modifying mine a lot (the comp was originally too large to function--the two hottest loads listed cycled so lightly that some of the cases rolled over my forearms upon ejection), so the comp is all rough-looking.  

Lindenwood said: Just spent over a grand on my first machine tool (a Sieg X2 variant if anyone is curious). So, now I have another expensive hobby to feed, though hopefully it also means I'll be churning out all sorts of experimental comps . Click to expand...

Hi Lindenwood, Really great job in putting together all the nuts and bolts of shooting 45 Supers and Beyond.... I have two of es350's comps. One on my Gen 4 21 with a 6" LW barrel and one on my Gen 3 21 converted to .460 Rowland from a Rowland kit from a few years ago. I couldn't be happier with the comps he makes. He is one who got me to shooting Rowland level loads in my .45 ACP brass. I have had so much fun watching the brass drop near my feet after launching a 230 gr. homecast bullet at almost 1400fps with 800X. This info. will be a great help to others in setting up their Glock 21s to handle 45 Super and hotter loads.  

Glad it looks good, and glad (but not surprised) to hear of your successes with those comps! I have mostly been messing with my mill, but in the next month or so I'd like to get back to playing with the G21 again. I have been really curious about making a comp for my 6.6" barrel that doesn't extend past the muzzle, using only its weight to slow the slide. I imagine with Al one could shoot factory loads with reduced recoil, but still not sure if factory loads could cycle a full-lug steel portless comp. I have also been toying with the idea of buying another G21 slide and experimenting with lightening the slide itself. Using a comp (even a portless one, just relying on the weight), one could lighten the slide and end up with something that cycles as quickly as stock but shoots noticably flatter than stock or even than a real longslide.  

Lindenwood, Nice job synthesizing a lot of data into a nice summary. Makes for an easy summary read on the development and evolution of the Super. I would suggest however that if you are going to post large chunks of others post verbatim that you either post reference links to the original or put a foot note crediting the source author. I personally don't care about credit on the work I've contributed but some people may take exception to their work being "borrowed". Also a reference would facilitate people going back to the original if they want to wade thru the entire dialogue.  

I have spent enough time in school to certainly understand plaigarism. But in this case, considering the days I had already spent on it, I assumed the significant credit-redirecting disclaimers making up the first three paragraphs were plenty fair for a public internet forum. In any case, it would be unfortunate if this thread is not accepted. Already, most of the new questions posed in the huge Super thread would have been largely answered through this synopsis, had it stayed on the front page.  

Thrilled to see this new highly specialized thread for the 45 SUPER! Decided to join the club having just acquired a LW Longslide, 6.6" threaded barrel, etc. Now I need the comp...how do I get in touch with es350? Cheers, Brakeman  

Brakeman said: Now I need the comp...how do I get in touch with es350? Click to expand...

Very nice Lindenwood  

So I'm not sure if I'm doing this right as I realize this is an older thread but it seemed like the right place to post this data? Anyway I've been tinkering with the 45 super round in my Gen 3 G21SF for a while and wanted to share some loads I tested. I decided I wanted to come up with a powerful packing load for woods carry and I wanted it to be as stout as i could get it without using a compensator. After lurking around on this and other forums getting some ideas and gathering a little info I decided to try the beartooth 280 gr WFN hard cast gas checked bullets. I used fresh starline 45 super brass with remington large pistol primers. The powder is Longshot. The cartridge OAL had to be about 1.180" to fit in the barrel without pressing against the riflings. Definitely don't want to shoot these loads from a factory glock barrel, I used a lone wolf barrel standard length (4.6") and I also used a springco recoil reduction guiderod and spring. Seemed to really protect against battering the slide stop. Aside from the barrel and recoil spring everything else was stock. Here's the data.... WARNING: As usual, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! While these loads seemed to be ok in my setup they may not be in yours. BE CAREFUL! Bullets: 280 grain Beartooth hard cast lead WFN gas checked Brass: Fresh starline 45 super Primers: Remington 2 1/2 large pistol non-magnum Powder: Longshot Cartridge OAL: 1.180" 7.0gr - FPS - 936, 921, 922, 930, 909 7.5gr - FPS - 974, 960, 964, 980, 963 8.0gr - FPS - 1016, 1019, 1038, 1020, 1019 8.5gr - FPS - 1069, 1075, 1068, 1065, 1066 8.7gr - FPS - 1083, 1087, 1093, 1085, 1089 the last load of 8.7 grs was a little too much recoil for the gun in my opinion, the 8.5 gr load didnt seem too bad. All of the loads had pretty stout recoil tho. I think I'm going to try a batch in between the 8.0 and 8.5 range as anything over 1061 fps gets you 700 ft/lbs of muzzle energy which was kind of a goal for me. I didnt see any pressure signs that concerned me but as usual be careful if you try any of this data. You'll definitely want to use an aftermarket barrel with good chamber support and a stronger recoil spring. Remember to start low and work up slowly watching for any pressure signs. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to reach the velocity's that I did and still feel like they wouldnt destroy my gun in short order. Although I dont plan on feeding it a steady diet of these loads, just enough to make sure they function well and I can hit something with them, then it'll just be for packin in the woods.  

jbcricket: What weight recoil spring did you use? Although not 45 I just started with a 40 Super in my G21 I used a 24 lb. spring on a Lone Wolf stainless RSA.  

I ordered a spring kit with three spring weights, 20# 22# and 24# my plan was to use the sprinco guide rod with the heavier springs over it, however when I got to the range I discovered that the flat springs would not slide over the springco guide rod without forcing them so I decided to try the mainspring that came with it which I believe is just a standard 18# spring. But the springco guide rod has a short secondary spring built into it that only kicks in at the last 1/2 inch or so and that system seemed to work pretty well. I still want to experiment more with heavier springs but I think if you try the springco system you'll probably be happy with the way it handles hotter loads. I wouldn't use it for light loads tho.  

Right, I want to make sure I avoid frame battering. With a 4.6 inch barrel, I have to depend on the RSA. I only found 1 barrel for sale, that day. A Lone Wolf 4.6 inch, I wanted a longer barrel. I was very impressed with the 40 Super though.  

jbcricket- Welcome to the world of Super/Rowland reloading. I can tell you that the pressure is not a problem with your loads but the slide velocity will be! A 280gr bullet at 1050+ will be battering your frame with a 24# recoil spring (which is about the max you can use without causing feeding problems due to forward slide speed increase). I would look at where the forward nose of the slide (where the recoil spring seats into the slide) hits on your frame and look at how much it is getting chewed up from slide impact. FWIW that wonderful 280gr BTB WFN will sail thru just about anything you shoot with it at a measly 900fps so find out the load it is accurate at and back it off a bit. Or get a compensator. There is no free lunch. Loads with a power factor above 250 to 260 (bullet wt. x velocity/100) will batter your frame without a comp. A 250@1000fps or your 280@900 or so will stay in that 250PF zone. The extra 100-150fps will make negligible difference in your terminable ballistics. -CT  

Cycletroll- Thanks for the info, I figured I should probably back it off a little.  

For those that want to play with the sprinco unit, sig p220 springs fit and are available in different weights.  

Just joined this forum and have been reading some posts regarding goint the .45 Super conversion. I have a G21 and will be upgrading to shoot Super. Powder supply is very hard to come by where I am. (Guam). I have Winchester AutoComp that is listed on Hogdon's site and will be trying that out when I start loading for .45 Super. Just wanted to say thanks for the wealth of information provided by the members here. If anyone has any experience loading Super with AutoComp, I would be very appreciative of your results.  

Hello Troy, I'm sure you have read the info here in this thread as well as the other HUGE 45 Super thread not far below this one right now. If so you already know a fully supported chamber as well as a good brake and heavy RSA is needed to protect frame . This of course depends on how hot you want to go with your loads. I have experimented with Win. AutoComp under my 240 gr WFN bullet. I ran it up to 1341 fps from 6.6" LWD barrel with a good brake. If no brake and or not fully supported chamber this would be a hand grenade!! If a fully supported chamber just watch case head expansion and keep case ejection 8ft or less and you will be fine.  

es 350 said: Hello Troy, I'm sure you have read the info here in this thread as well as the other HUGE 45 Super thread not far below this one right now. If so you already know a fully supported chamber as well as a good brake and heavy RSA is needed to protect frame . This of course depends on how hot you want to go with your loads. I have experimented with Win. AutoComp under my 240 gr WFN bullet. I ran it up to 1341 fps from 6.6" LWD barrel with a good brake. If no brake and or not fully supported chamber this would be a hand grenade!! If a fully supported chamber just watch case head expansion and keep case ejection 8ft or less and you will be fine. Click to expand...

I started at book ACP load data and worked up to 10.7 gr under my 240 WFN bullet which I designed with maximum case capacity and max. Power in mind. Was also lubed with moly lube . Combination of bullet and lube makes this possible in my gun. With out an efficient brake , comparable bullet and moly lube you will not be able to reach this power level ! This was in my gun so start at ACP data and work up. I'm sure slide speed/ case ejection distance will be your limiting factor. Keep us posted of your results. ABOVE DATA IS MY PERSONAL DATA IN MY FIREARM I ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR ANY ONE TRYING TO REPLICATE ABOVE LOAD!  

Es350 I have a glock 30 sf gen3 and am interested in converting to shoot anything from 230gr standard pressure up to the point where I cannot shoot standard pressure ammo. I have not purchased the barrel yet but plan on a threaded and fully supported chamber barrel, 4.02 length, tungsten guide rod, stronger springs if needed and a comp from you. I have reloaded .357 and have the dies in 45 for my lee single stage. Is there a set up you could recommend that might work for my what I am thinking? I am working toward an idea based on a very old Elmer Kieth yarn I read years ago when he said a 300gr hardcast bullet at 1000 fps will take care of anything 4 legged you might encounter in the US. He was referring to 44 magnum at the time. Any help or advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.  

Thank you sir! I don't think I will ever push them that far but at least I know I can start with Hodgdon's data and have a better idea of the ceiling to get to. My plan is to shoot cast RN 225's and at the most, 230 and 250 grn. XTPs.  

ss30378 said: Troy, I’d recommend stepping up to the wolff guide rod and springs in the super. They are much stronger than the ismi flat springs. To do this with the lw longslide you have to file down the flat on the barrel to keep it from binding. Looks like this when done. View attachment 359335 You can see where the little black mark is, this is where it binds. Just file until cycling is smooth. The wolff 24lb spring is much stronger than the ismi 24lb spring and does a better job at slowing the slide down. Click to expand...

I have a problem with my glock21 gen4, lone wolf 5.2 threaded barrel, ISMI captured guide rod, gen3 to gen4 adapter, wolf 24# spring. Winchester new brass, cci large pistol prime, 8.5 gr. Power Pistol, Keith 255 gr. Missouri cast bullet. The first shot throws the brass 6-7 ft.(great) second shot throws the brass 12-15 ft. The problem I found is the guide rod is jumping off of the barrel after the first shot. Has anybody seen this problem? Please help me somebody, I like to shot My gun but afraid to continue shooting it like it is.  

Attachments

• ?            
• 21.3M posts
• 190.2K members

Top Contributors this Month

ACCUEIL Vinylmaniaque.com

home       +       calibers/cartridges       +       cylinder gap       +       polygonal rifling       +       real world guns

Scope of the Project

Documentation

Actual process

Biographies

Other resources

Acknowledgements

• .380 ACP ('08)
• .380 ACP ('10)
• .38 Special
• 9mm Makarov
• .44 Special
• .45 ACP ('08)
• .45 ACP ('15)
• .460 Rowland

.45 Super Results in fps

.45 Super and .450 SMC (Short Magnum Cartridge) are two relatively recent variations on the classic .45 ACP cartridge.  They were designed to gain more power from the cartridge than it was originally designed to produce, using modern smokeless powder and more robust case specifications.  And these rounds achieve this goal, producing about 100% greater muzzle energy for a given bullet weight over standard pressure .45 ACP rounds, and about a 50% increase over .45 ACP +P (over-pressure) rounds.

This increase in velocity/energy comes with higher chamber pressure, however.  The increased pressure means more stress on the firearm, resulting in increased wear and potential failure of the gun.  While the .45 Super/.450 SMC cartridge will fit into any standard .45 ACP firearm, you should exercise discretion in using those cartridges, either limiting how much you use them and/or upgrading your firearm to handle the increased pressure.  Be safe.

Of the 12 types of ammunition listed below, only the Double Tap ammo was the .450 SMC configuration (which is identical to the .45 Super cartridge, except that it has a small primer).  All the others are .45 Super.

Click here for a Muzzle Energy graph for the tests in this caliber.

Other Resources

• BrassFetcher:  excellent resource, with an emphasis on bullet performance in ballistic gelatin
• The Box O' Truth :  testing ammo penetration through various barriers
• Terminal Ballistics Research :  Specializes in the research of cartridge & projectile performance, using hard data gathered from 20 years of hunting game.

We'd like to personally and specifically thank Pat Childs at Fin & Feather in Iowa City , as he not only helped get most of our ammunition and other supplies, he was the brilliant gunsmith who worked with us to make this insane project much more practical.  Without his help all of this would have been much more difficult and perhaps impossible.  Anyone who uses our data owes him a debt of gratitude.

And thanks to our spouses, who were not just tolerant but enthusiastically supportive of this rather nutty project.

This project, and all of its results, is only our fault.  We (well, Jim K, mostly) paid for everything ourselves, and we did not receive any kind of sponsorship or remuneration from anyone.  We did all the work.  We used products we were either familiar with, or because they were what was available, and mentioning them by name does not constitute an endorsement of any kind.  Furthermore, the data is provided purely for entertainment purposes - to better facilitate arguments over what ammo or caliber or gun is "best."  How you use the data is entirely up to you.  And if you think you could do better, feel free to spend the money and do the work and publish your own results.  Or not.  Your choice.

site designed and maintained by Coeurbois Graphic Design

Login Passenger

Check your mail and will be found your password.

How many Baggage are allowed per passenger?

• One (1) pieces of baggage is checked free of charge for adults and children.
• One (1) additional piece of baggage may be checked for a charge of $10.00 for adults only.
• One (1) small bag up to 15 pounds can be taken on board for each adult or child.
• Carry-on bags must fit in the overhead compartment or under your seat.
• The maximum allowable weight for checked baggage is 50 pounds per individual piece of baggage.
• charge of $20 will be charged for any baggage above the 50 pound limit.
• Baggage must not exceed 62 inches when adding the total exterior dimensions of the piece (length + width + height).
• A charge of $20 will be applied to any baggage above the 62-inch limit.

In What Age Are They Considered Minors?

Infants up to 2 years of age travel free on the lap of the paying adult, Children over the age of 2 years must travel in a purchased seat.

Are Pets Allowed?

Pets are prohibited.

What Is The Difference Of The Rates?

• Web Fare: The benefit that Web fare provides is Allow One Piece of Baggage, does not allow Refunds of any kind and is not allowed Change of Schedule.
• Super Discount: The benefit that Super Discount provides is Allowing One Piece of Baggage And it may become cheaper than WebFare, does not allow Refunds of any kind and is not allowed to change the Schedule.
• Super Promo: The benefit provided by Super Promo is to allow a piece of luggage and may become more economical than the other rates, does not allow refunds of any kind and is not allowed change of itinerary.
• Super Flex: The benefits provided by Superflex are Allow One Piece of Baggage and allows change of Schedule, does not allow Refunds of any kind.

Can Minors Travel?

Children 8 through 15 years of age will be accepted for transportation when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age. Unaccompanied children under 8 years of age will not be accepted under any circumstances. No unaccompanied minor are permitted on travel packages.

Where does Super Tours Travel?

We offer daily service Between Orlando, Fort Pierce, Lake Worth/West Palm Beach, Pompano Beach, Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood, Miami Beach, and Miami, including a stop at the Miami International Airport.

What are your departure and arrival times?

Super Tours offers various departures; please visit our schedules on the home screen for times and locations.

How much is the cost per person to travel?

Prices per seat. Price varies due to travel date and date of purchase. All passengers must purchase a ticket to board, including infants.

How to make a reservation?

You can make reservations on the home screen or by calling our call center at (407)370-3001. Please note that you save by booking online.

How do I pay for my reservation?

Reservations need to be prepaid with a major credit card through our secure payment on our website or by calling our call center (407)370-3001.

What will I receive to show my reservation is confirmed?

Once your reservation is paid for, you will receive a confirmation number and an E-ticket via e-mail. E-Tickets do not need to be printed.

Does my child need to pay for a ticket?

All passengers, including infants, must reserve and pay for a seat on the bus.

How many pieces of luggage am I entitled to travel with?

Each passenger is entitled to the following:

• Two (2) piece of luggage checked in free of charge.
• One (1) additional piece of baggage may be checked in for an additional charge of $20.00.
• One (1) small carry-on bag up to 10 pounds can be taken on board for each passenger.
• The maximum allowable weight for checked baggage is 45 pounds per individual piece of luggage.
• $20 will be assessed for any baggage above the 45 pound limit.
• The baggage must not exceed 62 linear inches. (Adding the total exterior dimensions of the piece (length + width + height)).
• A charge of $20 will be assessed to any baggage above the 62-inch limit.

What is the cancelation policy?

All tickets that are purchased are non-refundable and non-transferable under any circumstance. We ask that before you make your purchase, to be sure that you will be able to travel.

What if I missed my Bus?

We are aware that unfortunate things may occur that you may miss the Bus; unfortunately, your ticket is non-refundable and non-transferable. You will need to purchase another ticket for another trip. To avoid missing your trip you must be at the departure location between 20 to 30 minutes before the departure time.

Times posted are?

The times posted on our schedule and E-Tickets are the departure times. It is the passenger's responsibility to be between 20 to 30 mins before the departure time at the location of departure.

Where do I wait for the Bus?

In Orlando, you will check-in inside the Terminal, 30 minutes before departure. In all other locations, you should be waiting for the Bus outside the departure location. Drivers will not search for passengers; passengers must be at the departure point, looking out for the Bus ready to board immediately

Are Pets allowed to travel?

All of us at Super Tours love pets, but unfortunately, for the safety and allergies of other passengers, they are not permitted to travel on our vehicles.

May a child travel alone on your trips?

Children 8 through 15 years of age will be accepted for transportation when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age. Unaccompanied children under 8 years of age will not be accepted under any circumstances. No unaccompanied minors are permitted on travel packages.

What amenities are onboard?

Vehicles are equipped with Power outlets, TV, and a Restroom. All or some of these amenities may not be available on your trip.

.45 SUPER - Published Manufacturer Loading Data

Moscow tours

• Page active

Jewish Tour in Moscow

Moscow Kremlin tour

Red Square & Moscow City Tour

Moscow Non-Touristy Tour

Izmailovo Tour in Moscow Flea Market & Kremlin

Moscow Must See Tour

2-Day Tour in Moscow With a Friendly Guide

3-Day Tour in Moscow With a Friendly Guide

Moscow Night Tour