pga tour stats spin rate

What Is The Average Spin Rate Of A PGA Tour Pro With Every Club?

A look at some Trackman stats makes for interesting reading - and could help you get closer to where you need to be

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Most recreational golfers probably don’t know their driver spin rate, let alone every golf club in the bag. However, ask elite Tour pros for these numbers and most would have a fairly good idea of what they are, for they spend hours on the range perfecting their equipment and tinkering with different ball flights.

What Is Spin Rate?

Spin rate is the amount of spin on the golf ball immediately after impact, and it has a major influence on the height and distance of a shot. There are many factors that affect spin rate, including club and ball design, friction, and impact location. However, spin rate is generated primarily by club speed and spin loft.

As a very general rule of thumb – and it’s important to note that there’s no one size fits all to driver spin rates, because everyone delivers the club differently to the ball – you’re probably looking for something in the region of 2,000 to 3,500rpm with a driver, but this depends on a number of factors.

PGA Tour Average Spin Rate

According to Trackman, average spin rates from the PGA Tour in 2022 for each club in the bag was as follows:

• Driver, 2,686
• 3-wood, 3,655
• 5-wood, 4,350
• Hybrid, (15-18°), 4,437
• 3-iron, 4,630
• 4-iron, 4,836
• 5-iron, 5,361
• 6-iron, 6,231
• 7-iron, 7,097
• 8-iron, 7,998
• 9-iron, 8,647

These numbers might not mean a lot, but let’s consider what happens if your spin rate isn’t right . If you create too much spin at impact, the ball tends to start off low, before ballooning up into the sky. Conversely, if you don’t generate enough spin, the ball will have a tendency to just drop out of the air. In both cases, carry and total distance will be short of where it could be. 

Rory McIlroy 's numbers makes for an interesting case study. According to the latest stats provided by the PGA Tour, the Northern Irishman averages 2,324.8 off the tee at the time of writing, which is below the Tour average of 2,570.6 and one of the reasons why he hits the ball so far. 

Interestingly, the average in 2007 was 2,814.2. This decrease of 300rpm over a 16-year period is proof that one of the reasons that drives are going further is due to lower spin.

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For comparison, according to Trackman the LPGA Tour average spin rate for driver is 2,611, and 5,943 for 6-iron. 

How Pro Spin Rates Compare To Amateur Golfers

• Male scratch or better (driver), 2,896 v Female scratch or better (driver), 2,831
• Male 5-handicap, 2,987 v Female 5-handicap, 3,027
• Male 10-handicap, 3,192 v Female 10-handicap, 3,207
• Male 14.5-handicap, 3,275 v Female 15-handicap 3,287

Michael has been with Golf Monthly since 2008. As a multimedia journalist, he has also worked for The Football Association, where he created content to support the men's European Championships, The FA Cup, London 2012, and FA Women's Super League. As content editor at Foremost Golf, Michael worked closely with golf's biggest equipment manufacturers, and has developed an in-depth knowledge of this side of the industry. He's now a regular contributor, covering instruction, equipment and feature content. Michael has interviewed many of the game's biggest stars, including six world number ones, and has attended and reported on many Major Championships and Ryder Cups. He's a member of Formby Golf Club. 

Andrea Lee, Wichanee Meechai, and Minjee Lee begin Sunday's fourth round with a two-shot advantage over the chasing pack at Lancaster Country Club

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Data matters: Inside the PGA Tour-Trackman partnership

Starting in 2022, the PGA Tour and Trackman joined forces to revolutionize the way we watch and understand the game of golf, bringing fans a more immersive experience than ever before.

With the integration of Trackman's cutting-edge Doppler radar and club and ball tracking technology, nearly every shot during every PGA Tour event is traced and shared across various platforms. This gives golf fans a deeper level of insight into players' performance, detailed club and ball data, and the impact of environmental factors on the game.

Here’s a closer look at how this partnership elevates the way we follow the world's best golfers:

For the Fans

The PGA Tour's decision to expand its partnership with Trackman marks a significant milestone in broadcast golf. By implementing our innovative tracking and tracing solutions, viewers gain unparalleled access to real-time data on club speed, ball speed, curve, landing spin, launch angle, spin rate, apex, carry and more. This data is seamlessly integrated into television broadcasts, OTT platforms and digital channels, offering fans more insight into how and why shots move and arrive at their positions.

Unmatched Tracking

Trackman's advanced aerodynamic models go beyond conventional tracking capabilities. The system can accurately assess the impact of external factors such as wind, weather and altitude on each shot, providing fans with a comprehensive view of how these elements influence the game. Additionally, our tracking system's ability to follow the flight of balls up to 400 yards under various conditions — including rain, fog, sunrise and sunset — ensures that no shot goes unnoticed.

Expanded Capabilities

The partnership between the PGA Tour and Trackman expands the tracking and tracing system from tee boxes to shots hit from the fairway and around the green. This means that every golf shot during a Tour event will be captured and instantly shared with television, OTT and digital partners. This data significantly enriches fan experiences on platforms like TOURCast, where inbound shots to the green can be visualized, offering a unique perspective on the game.

Eyes on the Future

This collaboration is expected to unlock even more innovative ways to present the game of golf. As technology continues to evolve, the fan experience will reach new heights, and the stories of the players' extraordinary skills will be told in captivating ways. The integration of Trackman's mobile system, which requires no cables or connections, is a step toward greater flexibility and efficiency in tracking shots from the fairway. This technology is being tested for future use on other events, including PGA Tour Champions and the Korn Ferry Tour.

PGA Tour Trackman Numbers: Unveiling The Stats

PGA Tour players are no strangers to cutting-edge technology, and one tool that has revolutionized the game is Trackman. Trackman is a state-of-the-art radar-based system that provides invaluable data and insights into a player’s performance. By accurately tracking the trajectory and characteristics of every shot, Trackman generates a wealth of numbers that offer key insights into a player’s abilities and areas for improvement. In this article, we will explore the role of Trackman in the PGA Tour and delve into the significance of various Trackman numbers that shape the outcome of professional golf.

The Role of Trackman in PGA Tour

Trackman has become an indispensable tool for PGA Tour players, giving them a competitive edge and a deeper understanding of their game. Professionals across the tour utilize Trackman in various ways, from swing analysis and equipment optimization to practicing specific shots and developing strategies for specific courses.

One of the biggest advantages of using Trackman is its ability to provide accurate and objective data, allowing players to make data-driven decisions. By analyzing Trackman numbers, players can assess their performance and uncover areas for improvement. This invaluable feedback helps players refine their swing mechanics, optimize their club selection, and fine-tune their shot strategies for different playing conditions.

Key Trackman Numbers in PGA Tour

When it comes to Trackman numbers, there are several key metrics that play a vital role in understanding a player’s performance. These numbers provide insights into a player’s power, accuracy, and overall effectiveness on the golf course. Let’s take a closer look at some of these important Trackman numbers:

1. Carry Distance

Carry distance refers to the distance the ball travels through the air before it lands. In PGA Tour, carry distance is a crucial indicator of a player’s power and clubhead speed. It helps determine the effectiveness of a player’s swing and the distance they can achieve with their shots.

2. Total Distance

Total distance encompasses both the carry distance and the roll after landing. This number is significant in the game as it provides a comprehensive measure of a player’s overall distance coverage. The ability to hit the ball a long way can give players a competitive advantage, especially on longer and more challenging courses.

3. Ball Speed

Ball speed is a critical factor in determining the distance a player can achieve with their shots. A higher ball speed translates to greater shot distance. PGA Tour players strive to maximize their ball speed through efficient swing mechanics and optimal equipment selection.

4. Smash Factor

Smash factor measures the efficiency of a player’s impact by indicating how well they transfer energy from the clubhead to the ball. A higher smash factor indicates a more efficient transfer of energy, resulting in greater ball speed and distance.

5. Launch Angle

The launch angle refers to the vertical angle at which the ball takes off after impact. PGA Tour players use Trackman to optimize their launch angle to ensure the right trajectory based on the shot requirements. Finding the ideal launch angle can maximize carry distance and optimize overall shot performance.

6. Spin Rate

Spin rate is the rate at which the ball spins around its axis after being struck. Controlling the spin rate is crucial for shot accuracy, especially when hitting approach shots into the green. By analyzing spin rate, players can fine-tune their shots and control the ball’s flight path.

7. Angle of Attack

The angle of attack refers to the angle at which the clubhead approaches the ball during impact. This metric affects the ball’s flight and shot shape. PGA Tour players analyze their angle of attack using Trackman to optimize their shots and achieve the desired shot shape for various playing conditions.

8. Club Path

The club path refers to the direction the clubhead moves during the swing. Understanding the club path is crucial for shot accuracy and controlling the shape of the ball’s flight. Analyzing the club path helps players identify any swing faults and make necessary adjustments.

How Trackman Numbers are Analyzed by Coaches

Trackman numbers not only provide players with valuable insights but also contribute to the work of coaches and trainers. Coaches play a vital role in interpreting and analyzing Trackman data to identify areas of improvement and develop customized training programs for their players. By analyzing the Trackman numbers, coaches can uncover patterns, strengths, and weaknesses in a player’s game, allowing them to tailor their coaching approach to address specific areas that require attention.

Utilizing Trackman data, coaches can track a player’s progress over time, set realistic goals, and measure improvements accurately. With this feedback-driven approach, coaches can optimize their training programs and help PGA Tour players reach their full potential.

Practical Applications of Trackman Numbers for PGA Tour Players

PGA Tour players harness the power of Trackman numbers to fine-tune various aspects of their game, ultimately improving their performance on the course. Here are some practical applications of Trackman numbers for PGA Tour players:

– Enhancing driving distance and accuracy through data-driven adjustments

– Optimizing approach shots for improved proximity to the hole

– Fine-tuning short game skills using Trackman data for better scoring opportunities

– Tracking progress and evaluating performance improvements over time

Challenges and Limitations of Trackman Numbers

While Trackman is an incredible tool, there are some challenges and limitations associated with its use in the PGA Tour:

– Factors such as adverse weather conditions or uneven terrains can impact the accuracy of Trackman measurements.

– Interpreting Trackman data in varying weather conditions and course setups can pose challenges for players and coaches.

– It’s important to note that Trackman data represents a snapshot of a player’s performance and may not capture the entire picture of their abilities.

Trackman numbers have become an essential part of the PGA Tour, providing valuable insights into a player’s performance and helping them make data-driven decisions. From carry distance to spin rate, each Trackman number offers a unique perspective on a player’s game. Coaches and players alike rely on these numbers to develop strategies, identify areas for improvement, and ultimately enhance their performance on the course. As golf continues to embrace technology, Trackman’s role in shaping the future of the sport and player development will undoubtedly continue to grow.

Robert Akin

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Trackman Tour Avg. Numbers - Will We Have An Update?

By mkidding July 11, 2023 in Tour Talk

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I think probably most of us have seen this chart - however I just realized that this is from 2015 and was never updated since. Does anyone know if an updated version after 8 years would show up sometime soon? Or do we have any Trackman (or Foresight or other tour-level tracker) rep here that can kindly ask for a more up-to-date version of this?

Very curious to see if the data has changed, not just the club speed of course, but also attack angle, launch, spin, etc.

Also one question that I always have - why is tour avg. Driver attack angle is negative. I thought nowadays almost all instructors are teaching us to hit-up (resulting in a positive attack angle) on the driver.

Update: hand picked a couple of pros and here are their numbers - I would believe most of them are "hitting up" to the ball, esp Rickie, Rory and Scottie. Hope for more discussion though:

Paradym 9 + Vanquish

Stealth 2+ 3w + Ventus Blue

Callaway UT 2024 Tour Issue 18 + KBS PGH

Mizuno 923 Tour 4-P + ProjectX LZ

Cleveland RTX 6 50 55 60

Toulon Design Vista + BGT Tour Stability

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July 11, 2023

I think probably most of us have seen this chart - however I just realized that this is from 2015 and was never updated since. Does anyone know if an updated version after 8 years would show up someti

The launch conditions that are optimal for a tour-caliber player in tournament conditions are much different than the optimal launch conditions for a regular (or even very good single digit) player ha

I've contacted Klaus and Morten Eldrup-Jørgensen.  Hoping to get some answers by Friday. 

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4 minutes ago, mkidding said: I think probably most of us have seen this chart - however I just realized that this is from 2015 and was never updated since. Does anyone know if an updated version after 8 years would show up sometime soon? Or do we have any Trackman (or Foresight or other tour-level tracker) rep here that can kindly ask for a more up-to-date version of this?   Very curious to see if the data has changed, not just the club speed of course, but also attack angle, launch, spin, etc.   Also one question that I always have - why is tour avg. Driver attack angle is negative. I thought nowadays almost all instructors are teaching us to hit-up (resulting in a positive attack angle) on the driver.  

Just cause something is being taught doesnt mean old dogs will learn it ;}

AoA, as all data in this, are averages. Some are up and some are down. The average person wants three things from a lesson. The first is more distance. Hitting up is the fastest way for them to get that with the same swing speed.

I want more distance, and I want it now!

It’s a lot of work to get data. Trackman was in growth stage then and did a lot to help people understand impact cause and effect. It was new information about it and put them on the map. Unless your get a return on all that time and effort, it’s hard to justify.

The problem is that chasing tour averages of anything in instruction isn’t realistic or helpful. No one is average.

i don’t need no stinkin’ shift key

I've contacted  Klaus and Morten Eldrup-Jørgensen . 

Hoping to get some answers by Friday. 

@mkidding  if you go to the PGA Tour stats page they now have a section called "Radar" which will give you all the raw data for the driver.

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Wilson Staff CB 5-PW : Nippon Modus3 125-S

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The launch conditions that are optimal for a tour-caliber player in tournament conditions are much different than the optimal launch conditions for a regular (or even very good single digit) player hacking it around a muni or nice club. 

Tour angle of attack with driver tend to be neutral/negative for control reasons vs. flat out maximizing distance. 

Mortals need higher angle of attack to achieve higher launch to achieve higher apex to achieve optimal distance, because they don't have the same ball speed. When you have an abundance of speed, two things are true: (1) you don't actually need to launch it as high, i.e. you can get pretty close to optimal with 10 or 11* launch vs closer to 13 for someone with a slower swing speed and (2) the marginal gain from each increased yard of distance is not nearly as important at 300 vs 310 as it is at 250 vs 260. So the optimum is actually to gravitate towards parameters that hit it far enough with sufficient control vs. just maximizing distance outright. Nonetheless, all of those guys are certainly capable of teeing it high and letting it rip with a positive AOA when necessary. It just isn't necessary or valuable on all that many holes. 

You will observe something similar when comparing LPGA tour launch conditions vs PGA tour launch conditions with driver. LPGA AOA average is closer to 3 or 3.5 IIRC, which is probably closer to optimal for most amateurs. 

the other thing I'd keep in mind is that the economic incentive for instructors is for you to come back, i.e. feel like you are playing better rather than necessarily actually playing better. A lot of amateurs would be best off playing a ball flight that goes substantially shorter but gets the ball in play a higher percentage of the time. It's the same reason you see so much instruction out there on "how to hit a draw". You need to be really, really good for a draw to make sense as a desirable stock ball flight. But a lot of the golf market associates draw=good because slice=bad. My 12 handicap brother has been obsessed with hitting draws for the last 5 years even though I kick his a** by 15 shots every round hitting a fade. It boggles the mind. 

From PGA Stats Radar:

• Median  10.5°

The average hides the fact that PGA pro's launch at a surprisingly wide variance of launch conditions.  Spin rates vary from 2200 to just over 3000rpm.  Tour average ball speed is now 173mph, ranging from 156mph to 191mph.  At first glance I don't think the driver numbers have changed that dramatically in the last 8 years.  Slight bump in average ball speed.  Thats all I see. 

TSR3 9° Ventus Black TR 6X - Stealth+ 3W Ventus Blue 6TX - Stealth+ 5W Ventus Black TR 8X - Mizuno 225 4i / MP 20 5-PW Proj X IO 6.0 - Titleist SM9 S200 50.12F 55.11D 60.04T - Rossie White Hot (Circa ~2002...I forget)

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52 minutes ago, MattC555 said: From PGA Stats Radar:   Launch High 13.5° Median  10.5° Low 6.2°   The average hides the fact that PGA pro's launch at a surprisingly wide variance of launch conditions.  Spin rates vary from 2200 to just over 3000rpm.  Tour average ball speed is now 173mph, ranging from 156mph to 191mph.  At first glance I don't think the driver numbers have changed that dramatically in the last 8 years.  Slight bump in average ball speed.  Thats all I see. 

oddly enough i bet every pro worth anything can adjust there launch angle based on conditions and how theyre playing so even a massive hitter like rahm can do low launches if he fills he needs more fairways and less distance.

1 hour ago, mbb86 said: The launch conditions that are optimal for a tour-caliber player in tournament conditions are much different than the optimal launch conditions for a regular (or even very good single digit) player hacking it around a muni or nice club.    Tour angle of attack with driver tend to be neutral/negative for control reasons vs. flat out maximizing distance.    Mortals need higher angle of attack to achieve higher launch to achieve higher apex to achieve optimal distance, because they don't have the same ball speed. When you have an abundance of speed, two things are true: (1) you don't actually need to launch it as high, i.e. you can get pretty close to optimal with 10 or 11* launch vs closer to 13 for someone with a slower swing speed and (2) the marginal gain from each increased yard of distance is not nearly as important at 300 vs 310 as it is at 250 vs 260. So the optimum is actually to gravitate towards parameters that hit it far enough with sufficient control vs. just maximizing distance outright. Nonetheless, all of those guys are certainly capable of teeing it high and letting it rip with a positive AOA when necessary. It just isn't necessary or valuable on all that many holes.    You will observe something similar when comparing LPGA tour launch conditions vs PGA tour launch conditions with driver. LPGA AOA average is closer to 3 or 3.5 IIRC, which is probably closer to optimal for most amateurs.    the other thing I'd keep in mind is that the economic incentive for instructors is for you to come back, i.e. feel like you are playing better rather than necessarily actually playing better. A lot of amateurs would be best off playing a ball flight that goes substantially shorter but gets the ball in play a higher percentage of the time. It's the same reason you see so much instruction out there on "how to hit a draw". You need to be really, really good for a draw to make sense as a desirable stock ball flight. But a lot of the golf market associates draw=good because slice=bad. My 12 handicap brother has been obsessed with hitting draws for the last 5 years even though I kick his a** by 15 shots every round hitting a fade. It boggles the mind. 

slice != fade || draw != hook. saying people should hit a slice is equivalent to saying they should hit a hook

Seems like 180mph+ ball speeds are the norm these days.  

174-179 dime a dozen.  Those are amazing numbers imo. 

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Regarding AoA, had always heard that since most of these guys are adequately long for the courses they are playing, they sacrifice a touch of distance in exchange for keeping the ball lower and a little more controllable.  That saw may be incorrect at this point though.

Regarding differences between now and 2015, I would bet that spin rate has come down some with driver to more in the 2400-2200 range.

5 minutes ago, smashdn said: Regarding AoA, had always heard that since most of these guys are adequately long for the courses they are playing, they sacrifice a touch of distance in exchange for keeping the ball lower and a little more controllable.  That saw may be incorrect at this point though.   Regarding differences between now and 2015, I would bet that spin rate has come down some with driver to more in the 2400-2200 range.

Average spin rate this year is  2555.6rpm.  Last year just short of 2600rpm.  The driver numbers are very similar to what was reported in 2015.  Slightly more ball speed, slightly less spin.  Club head speed has increased 2mph from 113mph to 115mph. 

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/02405

7 hours ago, jvincent said: @mkidding  if you go to the PGA Tour stats page they now have a section called "Radar" which will give you all the raw data for the driver.

Thanks for the tips. There's no attack angle data but here are some people's stat that I picked out for reference. It's hard to believe they carry a neg. attack angle IMO

Anyways, updated the original post on top.

I'm more interested in the iron data than driver. Pretty clear that the guys are absolutely launching the driver now and the the newer players are swinging faster and faster. It also appears that pros aren't as steep with their irons as they used to be. Divots look to be much smaller and shallower. 

Guessing that 7i numbers are closer to:

98-100 mph swing speed

130-135 ball speed

-2 or -3 AoA

Carry distance 180-190

Assuming that pros are using 7 irons with 32-34 degrees of loft.

TLUBulldogGolf

2 hours ago, mgoblue83 said: I'm more interested in the iron data than driver. Pretty clear that the guys are absolutely launching the driver now and the the newer players are swinging faster and faster. It also appears that pros aren't as steep with their irons as they used to be. Divots look to be much smaller and shallower.    Guessing that 7i numbers are closer to: 98-100 mph swing speed 130-135 ball speed -2 or -3 AoA Spin 6000 Carry distance 180-190   Assuming that pros are using 7 irons with 32-34 degrees of loft.

I would expect to see very similar numbers just with slightly higher club and ball speed. With the tour averaging 115 with the driver you can extrapolate it to around 92-93. Pros aren't looking to reduce spin with short and mid irons. 

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Mizuno T20 47-07 PX 6.5

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30 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:   I would expect to see very similar numbers just with slightly higher club and ball speed. With the tour averaging 115 with the driver you can extrapolate it to around 92-93. Pros aren't looking to reduce spin with short and mid irons. 

This is why we need actual data. Who knows how accurate the broadcasts are but alI I saw on the US Open coverage was 7i ball speeds over 130mph and carrying 190~ yds. 

My own numbers with a 36 degree blade 7i are 98~ swing speed, 129~ ball speed, 7200~ spin and 180~ carry and I'm almost positive most pros are using less loft (34 probably) and swinging at least as fast.

The other thing that would be nice to see is the median numbers instead of the averages. I know the tour is becoming younger and faster and while there definitely some old guys bringing down the average I'd almost guarantee that the IQR (25th-75th percentile) is significantly faster than the old Trackman averages. 

Chunkitgood

On 7/11/2023 at 6:24 AM, Soloman1 said: AoA, as all data in this, are averages. Some are up and some are down. The average person wants three things from a lesson. The first is more distance. Hitting up is the fastest way for them to get that with the same swing speed.   I want more distance, and I want it now!   It’s a lot of work to get data. Trackman was in growth stage then and did a lot to help people understand impact cause and effect. It was new information about it and put them on the map. Unless your get a return on all that time and effort, it’s hard to justify.   The problem is that chasing tour averages of anything in instruction isn’t realistic or helpful. No one is average.

No one may be average, and we can’t be sure without more info, but it is almost certain that a lot of people are in a pretty small space really close to it.

2 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:   This is why we need actual data. Who knows how accurate the broadcasts are but alI I saw on the US Open coverage was 7i ball speeds over 130mph and carrying 190~ yds.    My own numbers with a 36 degree 7i are 98~ swing speed, 129~ ball speed and 180~ carry and I'm almost positive most pros are using less loft (34 probably) and swinging at least as fast.    The other thing that would be nice to see is the median numbers instead of the averages. I know the tour is becoming younger and faster and while there definitely some old guys bringing down the average I'd almost guarantee that the IQR (25th-75th percentile) is significantly faster than the old Trackman averages. 

All fair points but you are probably a touch faster than the average PGA player. It would be nice to have the data. I think you are probably correct on loft as 36 is quite weak nowadays. I would guess 33-34 range, which in your case would yield more ball speed immediately and you are at the 130+ number. 

Here is Keegan with a 6 iron, though we don't have his swing speed or ball speed. He is very close to tour average club head speed:

https://golf.com/news/launch-monitor-numbers-keegan-bradley-trackman/

I tinkered with the trajectory optimizer and would guess he's 96-97 with 6 iron, which would put him 94-95 with 7. I think that's likely to be closer than my initial estimate, as the radar stats on the TOUR site include more than just driver afaik.

Here is JT at 99 with a 6 iron (though it's from 5 years ago), he's slightly above average ball speed:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/justin-thomas-trackman-numbers/

27 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:   All fair points but you are probably a touch faster than the average PGA player. It would be nice to have the data. I think you are probably correct on loft as 36 is quite weak nowadays. I would guess 33-34 range, which in your case would yield more ball speed immediately and you are at the 130+ number.    Here is Keegan with a 6 iron, though we don't have his swing speed or ball speed. He is very close to tour average club head speed:   https://golf.com/news/launch-monitor-numbers-keegan-bradley-trackman/   I tinkered with the trajectory optimizer and would guess he's 96-97 with 6 iron, which would put him 94-95 with 7. I think that's likely to be closer than my initial estimate, as the radar stats on the TOUR site include more than just driver afaik.   Here is JT at 99 with a 6 iron (though it's from 5 years ago), he's slightly above average ball speed:   https://blog.trackmangolf.com/justin-thomas-trackman-numbers/        

Really interesting stuff but I would bet almost anything that JT is closer to the median PGA tour speed than Keegan is. Speaking of Keegan my mind is blown that he wants his 6i swing plane under 54 degrees. I don't even know how that's physically possible especially for a tall guy like Keegan. My driver swing plane is higher than that.... Also that swing looked like a chip shot. No way that's his game speed.

53 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:   Really interesting stuff but I would bet almost anything that JT is closer to the median PGA tour speed than Keegan is. Speaking of Keegan my mind is blown that he wants his 6i swing plane under 54 degrees. I don't even know how that's physically possible especially for a tall guy like Keegan. My driver swing plane is higher than that.... Also that swing looked like a chip shot. No way that's his game speed.

JT is 77 out 190 for driver CHS.  Keegan is 102.

On 7/11/2023 at 8:24 AM, Ferguson said: I've contacted  Klaus and Morten Eldrup-Jørgensen .  Hoping to get some answers by Friday. 

21 hours ago, Chunkitgood said: No one may be average, and we can’t be sure without more info, but it is almost certain that a lot of people are in a pretty small space really close to it.

That isn’t the case with range of motion. It’s a wide band.

Optimum AoA for any player depends on variables in equipment, physical attributes and swing (particularly swing plane).

Even for a data guy like me, sometimes numbers are a distraction. Impact geometry, spin and ball flight result is more productive because optimum AoA can be different for individuals.

Chasing one parameter is one of the best ways I know to turn a 1 handicap into an 8.

• 8 months later...

On 7/13/2023 at 12:15 PM, Ferguson said:     Q1, 2024    Thanks.

As Q1 2024 is over, any news on the release of updated figures as per the indication mentioned in this thread?

3 hours ago, RaisyDaisy said:   As Q1 2024 is over, any news on the release of updated figures as per the indication mentioned in this thread?

The bottleneck is  Fredrik Tuxen, engineer.  Tuxey, as they call him, should have some answers for us around the middle of June.

Mike Hall has a recent article. (How far PGA Tour Players carry their drives)

• 3 weeks later...

I'm also looking for current numbers, but there is an update from 2017 which is pretty much the same as 2015... https://blog.trackmangolf.com/2017-pga-lpga-tour-avg/

• 2 weeks later...

FYI they just posted an update

Still negative AOA for Driver which is surprising

https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages

Average carry of 282 is just incredible.  I’ve seen Jordan Spieth hit 180mph ball speeds so he has picked up around 10mph ball speed from not long ago.   Different ball game these days. 

On 7/11/2023 at 9:27 AM, mbb86 said: The launch conditions that are optimal for a tour-caliber player in tournament conditions are much different than the optimal launch conditions for a regular (or even very good single digit) player hacking it around a muni or nice club.    Tour angle of attack with driver tend to be neutral/negative for control reasons vs. flat out maximizing distance.    Mortals need higher angle of attack to achieve higher launch to achieve higher apex to achieve optimal distance, because they don't have the same ball speed. When you have an abundance of speed, two things are true: (1) you don't actually need to launch it as high, i.e. you can get pretty close to optimal with 10 or 11* launch vs closer to 13 for someone with a slower swing speed and (2) the marginal gain from each increased yard of distance is not nearly as important at 300 vs 310 as it is at 250 vs 260. So the optimum is actually to gravitate towards parameters that hit it far enough with sufficient control vs. just maximizing distance outright. Nonetheless, all of those guys are certainly capable of teeing it high and letting it rip with a positive AOA when necessary. It just isn't necessary or valuable on all that many holes.    You will observe something similar when comparing LPGA tour launch conditions vs PGA tour launch conditions with driver. LPGA AOA average is closer to 3 or 3.5 IIRC, which is probably closer to optimal for most amateurs.    the other thing I'd keep in mind is that the economic incentive for instructors is for you to come back, i.e. feel like you are playing better rather than necessarily actually playing better. A lot of amateurs would be best off playing a ball flight that goes substantially shorter but gets the ball in play a higher percentage of the time. mind. 

"It's the same reason you see so much instruction out there on "how to hit a draw". You need to be really, really good for a draw to make sense as a desirable stock ball flight. But a lot of the golf market associates draw=good because slice=bad. My 12 handicap brother has been obsessed with hitting draws for the last 5 years even though I kick his a** by 15 shots every round hitting a fade. It boggles the"

Truer words have never been spoken. My game with a fade was fine until I took a lesson to learn how to hit a draw consistently. I lost my game and my motivation to play the game, that was five years ago. I still play, but nothing like when I was posting good scores. For the Amateurs and Professionals......an added 10 yards is the "Holy Grail"

Is there any question as to why most golfers disagree with a rollback?

As for me, I'll continue to search for the consistent fade that I should have appreciated in the first place. 🙂 🙂

Cactus Jack

1 hour ago, hogan2017 said: FYI they just posted an update   Still negative AOA for Driver which is surprising   https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages

Crazy to me how those ladies and gentlemen hit each club on average, PW to driver, the same height, and how low they get their launch angles. They have some serious hands forward delofting compression.  

Would be interesting in seeing who the most average player is.

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Titleist GT drivers - 2024 the Memorial Tournament

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Cause of Spin Rate

If you want to improve, you need to understand spin rate. Worry less about the outcome and focus more on how the club impacts the ball to get real, actionable data.

Looking at just one parameter as a cause of something else can be misleading.

Recently working with PGA Tour player Wyndham Clark while testing drivers, spin rates were from 1,700-3,200 rpm shot to shot. We were looking to see driver spin rates to be more in the range of 2,200-2,500 rpms. That is with multiple shafts/driver heads, we’d still be seeing too high or too low spin rates. We were only looking at spin rate numbers until I started looking into club delivery numbers, especially attack angle.

But why would spin rate be so volatile?

How that club is being delivered and the impact on the face dictates spin. Taking a deeper dive into club numbers I noticed attack angle was consistently -4 to -2 down. The optimal attack angle is hitting slightly up on the ball, positive 1 to positive 4. Wyndham subsequently started to work on his attack angle. Now working on attack angle instead of spin rate things started to change. Every number became more consistent. Launch angle, club path, ball speed, club speed, and yes spin rate.

What’s the big takeaway? You are unlikely to get consistent by only looking at one number. Knowing why spin rate maybe too high or too low is the important factor. The attack angle with driver is a direct correlation of what a driver can produce when it comes to a predictable spin rate.

When looking at spin rate look at the cause, not the effect from the shot.

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Trackman Data on PGA Tour Averages

Most golfers think that the guys on the PGA Tour hit the ball incredibly long.  And I suppose they hit it relatively far, but nearly the distances that the public thinks.

I think the average student that I ask tells me that a tour player hits a 6 iron 220 yards.  And it just isn’t true….well at least not on average.  They think that a drives are always over 320, which they are not – not even close.

Check out the actual averages from the PGA Tour for the entire year:

Now this is not to say that a tour player can’t ramp it up another gear if they felt like showing off.  I’m sure most of them can squeeze out 10 extra yards on every club on this chart.

But mostly, when playing for the money, they don’t.  Because winning money, titles, and shooting low scores doesn’t involve all that much ‘power’ hitting, especially with the irons.

Instead, it’s mostly situational.  If I have a front pin with a hard green, I would go at it harder with the shorter club, maybe a 150 yard pitching wedge.  This is so I could hit it higher and spin it more, enabling me to access that tough pin position.

The average drive on tour last year was 289 yards.  I’d estimate the average tour player will hit their basic solid drive between 295-310 under neutral conditions.  But you also have to add in the slight mishits, the rainy days, and the balls that land in the rough.

Official driving distance is only measured on two holes per round, which means you might get 50-60 shots in a year.  A former tour pro told me he hit a tree branch off the tee that knocked his ball down, and it affected his average for the whole year by 15 yards.  This put him near the bottom of the pack.

I blame it on TV coverage.  How many times do you see TV reporting driving distance on an uphill into the wind hole?  A good drive might only yield 250 – and that isn’t exciting.

But then on the next hole when they come back down the hill with the wind behind them, they all go 340.

What about this awesome drive from Dustin Johnson in Hawaii that everyone was talking about:

So the drive went 433 yards.  But he picked up 25 yards for elevation, 25 for wind, and another 45 for extra roll.  That’s 95 extra yards, putting the actual distance of the drive under neutral conditions around 340-345.

And this is about DJ’s average ‘big’ drive when he swings harder, at around 125 mph.  Maybe 126 or 127.

So next time the announcer says that someone is hitting a 5 iron from 223, keep in mind that it’s mostly conditions, and note where the ball actually carries.

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Analytics 101

Pga tour stat leaders off the tee in 2023 so far.

An In-Depth Analysis of PGA Tour Off The Tee Radar Stats in 2023

Anyone who follows the PGA Tour knows that even the most intricate details can make or break a golfer’s performance on any given day. That’s probably what led you to wonder about the off-the-tee radar stats from your favorite pros. It’s a pretty interesting category now that golf has the capability to collect more and more stats with the use of radar technology. 

This article will break down who is ranking at the top of each of those statistical categories. The key statistics we’ll cover are:

• Club Head Speed
• Smash Factor
• Apex Height
• Carry Distance
• Total Distance Efficiency
• Ball Speed 
• Launch Angle
• Distance to Apex
• Carry Efficiency
• Total Driving Efficiency

We’ll also provide a detailed analysis of how radar stats affect a golfer’s game and if improving them really leads to better scores. You’ll want to stick around until the end to get all the details. Let’s get started. 

Club Head Speed Leaders

Smash factor leaders, spin rate leaders, apex height leaders, carry distance leaders, total distance efficiency leaders, ball speed leaders, launch angle leaders, distance to apex leaders, carry efficiency leaders, total driving efficiency leaders, analysis of how ranking high in off the tee radar stats affects a golfer’s scores.

All the data is great, but you’re probably wondering how golfers can actually apply it to their game. Let’s take a look at some key aspects and what we can gain from this data. 

Does Performing Well Off The Tee Lead to Better Scores?

While everyone likes to drive the ball far and efficiently, you can probably tell from this data that it does not necessarily lead to better scores. 

There is quite a bit of variance in this data from players who rank in the top 5 in off-the-tee statistics and their overall PGA Tour rank. 

For instance, you’ll notice golfers like Brandon Matthews and Cameron Champ both rank high in many of these categories. However, both these players are ranked 436th and 220th in the world, respectively. 

On the other hand, you also have players like Rory McIlroy and Keegan Bradley, both ranked in the top 25, who also perform well in many of these categories. 

Ultimately, driving well can help your game, but you need more than that to succeed. 

Golfers Must Have a Well-Rounded Skill Set

Brandon Matthews did green a 432-yard hole in September of last year. That said, he is still ranked 436th in the world for a reason. His short game needs work, and you can’t always expect to drive with such precision that you land on the green from 400+ yards out. 

While we didn’t list putting and chipping stats in this article, we dug into them to find that Brandon ranks 155th in putting average and 183rd in average proximity to the hole when chipping from 20-30 yards out.  

Cameron Champ is an up-and-coming player who also ranks highly in many of these driving stats, but he also ranks 185th in putting average and 190th in proximity to the hole from 20-30 yards out. 

All in all, a well-rounded golf game matters a lot. Even if you drive far, it still hurts you if you 2-putt most of your holes. If players like Brandon and Cameron tune up that area of their game while still driving with the same power, they’ll be in a great spot going into the future. 

How Can Golfers Use Stats to Improve Their Game? 

Nowadays, we’re lucky because we have many tools at our disposal. We have launch monitors we can take out on the course or indoor golf simulation systems that track key stats to show our strengths and weaknesses. 

The key is identifying both and determining which areas you can improve. For instance, if you’re great at driving with power, but struggle with accuracy, you would know you need to hone in on hitting with more precision. Stats aren’t just cool to look at, they can also help you train with more intention. It’ll make you a more well-rounded golfer in the end. 

While ranking in the top 5 in off-the-tee radar stats doesn’t necessarily lock a player’s place as a top performer in the world, that doesn’t mean these stats are useless. It’s about what you take away from them and how you use them to better yourself that matters most. You will improve with consistent and intentional effort!

Pierce Reiten

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Harrison Butker controversy: Pop star Katy Perry posts edited version of Chiefs kicker's commencement speech

Perry spliced together portions of butker's benedictine college commencement speech to provide a positive message for pride month.

Pop star Katy Perry began Pride Month by posting an edited version of Kansas City Chiefs kicker Harrison Butker's Benedictine College commencement speech from last month . In the video posted on Perry's Instagram account, portions of Butker's speech were spliced together to provide a positive message toward the LGBTQ+ community.

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment," Butker said in the highly edited video. "You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you're going to get in your career? I would venture to guess that the women here today are going to lead successful careers in the world.

"I say all of this to you because I have seen it firsthand. How much happier someone can be supporting women and not saying that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. The road ahead is bright. Things are changing, society is shifting and people, young and old, are embracing diversity, equity and inclusion."

Perry captioned the post: "Fixed this for my girls, my graduates, and my gays — you can do anything." She also added a clip in which Butker can be heard saying, "I want to say Happy Pride Month to all of you, and congratulations Class of 2024!"

View this post on Instagram A post shared by KATY PERRY (@katyperry)

Butker touched on several controversial topics during his speech in May, including women's roles in society and Pride Month.

"Part of what plagues our society," Butker said during last month's speech, "is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities. As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction and chaos set in. This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation. Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates. ... Be unapologetic in your masculinity, fighting against the cultural emasculation of men. Do hard things. Never settle for what is easy."

Following Butker's speech, the NFL responded by stating the Chiefs kicker's views don't reflect the league's stance on many of these topics.

"His views are not those of the NFL as an organization," said Jonathan Beane, the NFL's senior vice president and chief diversity and inclusion officer. "The NFL is steadfast in our commitment to inclusion, which only makes our league stronger."

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PGA TOUR selects TrackMan tracking and tracing solution beginning in 2022

TOUR events to see expanded use of club and ball tracking and tracer technology for nearly every shot to help enrich the fan experience

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PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida – The PGA TOUR and TrackMan announced today they are expanding golf’s most advanced club and ball tracking and tracing solution. By combining TrackMan’s cutting-edge Doppler Radar and club and ball tracking technology, TOUR events will have tracing capabilities for every golf shot hit during the season. This will significantly enhance how fans experience the world’s best golfers by providing more detail for television, OTT and digital platforms.

This agreement will double previous ball-in-motion tracing capabilities on the golf course, allowing nearly every shot to be traced and automatically shared with television and OTT partners and across TOUR digital platforms such as PGATOUR.COM and the PGA TOUR app. The arrangement with TrackMan begins in 2022 for PGA TOUR LIVE and TOUR digital platforms, while the domestic television partner agreement begins in 2023. This expansion will immediately offer fan enhancements such as the visualization of ball flight paths for shots inbound to the green in TOURCast.

“We’re excited to increase the volume and depth of tracking and tracing for every shot on the PGA TOUR,” said Ken Lovell, PGA TOUR Senior Vice President Golf Technologies. “TrackMan’s sensors will substantially increase content available for analysis and initiate the development of new insights, while creating the opportunity for us to develop innovative visualizations for fans to view all the incredible shots on TOUR.”

Fans will see more information beginning in 2022 on how and why the ball moves and arrives at a certain position. This is achieved by using TrackMan technology to capture club speed, ball speed, curve, landing spin, launch angle, spin rate, spin axis, apex, carry and more. The advanced aerodynamic models can also determine the effects of wind, weather, and altitude on a shot so that fans can understand how a shot was impacted by environmental factors.

In addition to doubling the collection of radar and tracing information, the new system will substantially increase the range and sensitivity of the content that will now be layered with video for use on any TOUR media platform.

Klaus Eldrup-Jorgensen, co-founder and CEO of TrackMan, commented “We have been working closely with the PGA TOUR for more than 15 years, to accurately measure and report data on club delivery, ball launch, ball flight, and tracers for the best players in the world. We are proud to be chosen to implement our new solutions with the PGA TOUR, which will ultimately include all shots for all players. The future of golf will be told in new and innovative ways, the fan experience will elevate to a new level, and the stories about how good these guys play is just beginning.”

The club and ball tracking and tracing solution has become a valuable element to “ShotLink powered by CDW,” the TOUR’s real-time data collection and scoring system. As the TOUR and CDW continue to innovate the acclaimed scoring system that has benefited tournaments, broadcast partners, players and fans in countless ways over the years, the TrackMan system contributes to the automated data collection efforts by allowing ShotLink to auto-trigger on shots without input from a person.

The new technology being deployed expands tracking capabilities from tee boxes only to shots hit from the fairway and around the green, where the system determines the exact 3D position of the ball at any point in its flight. The TrackMan technology has the ability to lock onto a ball that starts behind the trees and only becomes visible to the radar halfway through its flight. It’s able to accurately track balls up to 400 yards in any conditions; rain, fog, sunrise, and sunset.

For a typical TOUR event, around 40 units are placed around the course to track shots with advanced radar and camera units on tee boxes and greens to capture final resting position.

TrackMan also recently developed a mobile system that will be used for the capture of radar and tracing information from the fairway and will automatically integrate into TOUR media platforms, which is aided by AWS, the TOUR’s Official Cloud Provider. There are no cables or connections with the mobile system, which adds very little weight for the operator. The TOUR is testing the mobile system for expanded future use on PGA TOUR Champions, the Korn Ferry Tour and in other executions.

The club and ball tracking and tracing system will utilize AWS Fargate, Media Services, and numerous other AWS products to process and deliver radar and tracing on every shot in nearly real-time. The full suite of AWS products will allow TrackMan to reduce their onsite footprint and allow fast and easy access to the devices and information from anywhere around the world.