what happened to romulus star trek

'Star Trek: Picard's Romulan continuity, explained by the producer

'Picard' adds a new wrinkle to Star Trek's already-confusing timeline. So we asked Akiva Goldsman to explain where the new show fits in.

Star Trek encompasses so many movies, TV shows, and novels that keeping track of its various timelines is practically a full-time job. Luckily, the team behind Star Trek: Picard has someone to do just that, executive producer Akiva Goldsman, who previously worked on Star Trek: Discovery , along with various sci-fi and action classics like I Am Legend and Batman Forever .

What timeline does this return to the Jean-Luc Picard story take place? It was a question executive producer Akiva Goldsman was more than prepared to answer at a Television Critics Association press event just a week ahead of the show's highly anticipated premiere.

"If you look at J.J.'s movies, there is one section of the first movie which is actually canon. It's before the universe is split, before the entry into the Kelvin Universe,” Goldsman tells Inverse.

Captain Picard with some angry Romulans.

The section he's referring to is the destruction of Romulus which, in J.J. Abrams's 2009 Star Trek reboot, sent Spock back in time and retconned the entire canon. In the process, a brand new timeline was introduced, giving audiences the Kelvin universe where the new versions of James T. Kirk (Chris Pine) and crew exist in.

Picard "takes that Romulan supernova and is part of the canon," Goldsman confirms.

Aside from the refugee crisis in Picard that the Romulan supernova creates, we don’t know much else about the long-term effects of that destruction. However, given the addition of a Romulan presence on the show, something tells us Captain Picard isn’t just coming out of retirement to face down his personal demons, but another long-time enemy.

Armed with the knowledge of which Star Trek timeline Picard takes place in, Goldsman gives a brief refresher on what kind of story we can expect.

"Our closest cousins would probably be the back half of season one of Discovery , the mirror universe continuity,” he says, “and then some of Deep Space 9 where it became, you know, fundamentally serialized."

Evil Spock in "Mirror, Mirror" ('Star Trek: The Original Series,' 1967)

The concept of the Mirror Universe, which presents a parallel, similar-looking, but far less-optimistic Star Trek timeline, was first introduced in Star Trek: The Original Series , in an episode titled, "Mirror Mirror." The inclusion of Jeri Ryan's fan-favorite Borg character Seven of Nine to the mix alludes to a continuation of her character's journey which began in Star Trek: Voyager . These tidbits add some interesting color to the new Star Trek story, but of course, we can’t help but wonder how the show will address Jean-Luc Picard's life, and Next Generation story, since the events of 2002's Star Trek: Nemesis .

"We are in continuity, certainly, with Nemesis ," Goldsman says. " Nemesis is the last time we saw many of these folks and so, yes Nemesis is our antecedent. But we took the interstitial two decades, essentially, and imagined them. So there's a lot that came in between that we filled in in order to push forward."

Before any of that could happen, Sir Patrick Stewart’s involvement in the new series was obviously integral to getting it made, but there was always one big rule that came with the actor’s return to the iconic role. Star Trek: Picard needed to traverse new narrative territory, not just retread the subject matter explored in TNG’ s groundbreaking seven-season run, and the four movies that followed.

"I discovered I also lived through those 19 years, and I had changed ." — Patrick Stewart

This brings us to the two watershed moments that will surely have had a lasting impact on the Captain: The destruction of Romulus and the death of his dear friend Lt. Cmdr Data (Brent Spiner), who perished to save Picard’s life in Nemesis . Promotional clips for the series show Spiner back in the android makeup, further alluding to a concept that Picard’s past may indeed be catching up with him.

"The backstory of those 19 years is very, very important," Sir Patrick Stewart explains, discussing the profound changes in both his on-screen persona and his off-screen one. "But the great thing about it is, and I wasn't prepared for this, I discovered I also lived through those 19 years, and I had changed."

Star Trek: Picard premieres Thursday, January 23 on CBS: All Access.

The History Of The Romulans, And Their Place In The Star Trek Universe

"Star Trek" is home to countless alien races, but few have as enduring a presence in the franchise as the Romulans. They're the most persistent adversaries of the Federation, so much so that blue-tinted Romulan Ale remains under trade embargo. This hostility makes it all the more ironic that they resemble humanity's first alien allies, the Vulcans , sharing their pointed ears and arched eyebrows.

The in-universe origin of the Romulans is that they were Vulcans, millennia ago. In that distant past, the Vulcans were a warlike people, far from the cold logicians that fans know. That changed when (in Earth's 4th century), the philosopher Surak taught his people to embrace logic and master their emotions. Not all Vulcans accepted Surak's teachings; "Those Who March Beneath The Raptor's Wings" were eventually exiled from Vulcan. These dissident Vulcans settled on the twin planets Romulus and Remus, evolving into the Romulans and personifying a violent path not taken by their Vulcan cousins.

"Star Trek" is big on allegory — the interstellar powers represent the geopolitics of the 20th century. The Federation is the United States of America, a democracy of many member states. As the Federation's most pressing rival, the Klingon Empire is the Soviet Union. The Romulan Star Empire is China, a "sleeping dragon" superpower.

So, why have the Romulans endured as a crucial part of "Star Trek" history — and what does their role in that history look like?

Romulans in the Original Series

The Romulans were created by writer Paul Schneider, debuting in the season 1 episode "Balance of Terror." The episode features the Enterprise reacting to the destruction of outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone; the culprit is a Romulan ship armed with a cloaking device. The Romulans flee back home while the Enterprise pursues its invisible quarry in a cat-and-mouse game.

This episode established the Romulan Star Empire had fought humanity in a devastating war a century ago. The war ended with a Neutral Zone established between the two parties' territories. Notably, no human had ever seen a Romulan in this time (or at least, no human who survived to tell about it). That means the Enterprise crew is stunned when they discover their adversaries are identical to Vulcans. The Romulans' exact backstory isn't spelled out, but Spock (Leonard Nimoy) speculates they are a Vulcan offshoot who retained his ancestors' warlike ways.

Schneider modeled the Romulans on the Romans; their twin homeworlds are named for the mythical founders of Rome and they employ ranks like "Centurion." Interviewed for "The Captains' Logs" by authors Edward Gross and Mark Altman , Schneider explained: "I came up with the concept of the Romulans which was an extension of the Roman civilization to the point of space travel, and it turned out quite well."

The Romulans' ship, dubbed a "Bird of Prey" due to the hawk painted on its underbelly, also created an association between the Romulans and birds. By "Star Trek: The Next Generation," their imperial insignia had evolved into a stylized raptor. Their ancestors' moniker, "Those Who March Beneath The Raptor's Wings," was probably extrapolated from this connection too by writer André Bormanis (the name first appears in "Star Trek: Enterprise" episode, "Awakening," written by Bormanis).

Further appearances

"Balance of Terror" is one of the most acclaimed episodes of "Star Trek: The Original Series." It was even semi-remade for the season 1 finale of "Strange New Worlds," titled "A Quality of Mercy." The unnamed Romulan Commander (played by Mark Lenard, who would go on to play Spock's father, Sarek) is an especially well-remembered villain, predating Khan Noonien Singh as the first worthy adversary of Captain Kirk (William Shatner) and the Enterprise. Even with his last words, he retains dignity and honor: "I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Despite this dynamite debut, the Romulans made only two more appearances in "The Original Series." They are the antagonists of the season 2 episode "The Deadly Years," about the Enterprise crew succumbing to premature aging. However, only their ships are seen, not the Romulans themselves. They make a second and final onscreen appearance in season 3's "The Enterprise Incident" ( written by the legendary D.C. Fontana ). In this episode, Spock seduces a Romulan commander (Joanne Linville) while Kirk poses as a Romulan officer to steal her ship's cloaking device.

According to "The Art of Star Trek" by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, "Romulans were originally intended to be more of an ongoing threat to the crew of the Enterprise, but the make-up requirements proved too expensive. Klingons were cheaper." Note how, in "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident," Romulan extras often wear ear-concealing helmets — an easy way to bypass make-up expenses.

The Romulans had only minor roles in the six theatrical "Star Trek" films featuring the original cast. They were rejected as villains of the third film, "The Search for Spock," again in favor of the Klingons (this is why the Klingons in that film have a cloaked ship called a Bird of Prey).

The Rihannsu

During the 1980s, the Romulans took center-stage in "Rihannsu," a five-novel series written primarily by Diane Duane (Peter Morwood co-authored the second, "The Romulan Way.") Published from 1984 to 2006, the novels invented a culture and language for the Romulans wholesale; they are technically not "Trek" canon but remain acclaimed for their world-building.

"Rihannsu" ("The Declared") is the Romulans' native name for themselves, akin to how German people call their nation "Deutschland," the Japanese call theirs "Nippon," etc. They are driven by "D'era," an expansionist impulse akin to Manifest Destiny, and "Mnhei'sahe" (ruling passion), a complex code of conduct that is foremost a rejection of the Vulcan system of logic.

"Mnhei'sahe" is weighed by one's personal strength and devotion to the Empire. Romulans seek power not for personal benefit per se, but because greater power serves the Empire. Selflessness is an alien concept to the Romulans; do things for the sake of your own Mnhei'sahe and others will benefit in the process. "Mnhei'sahe" spreads its claws even into simple Romulan social interactions, where the ideal outcome is for both parties to depart with their honor intact.

Much of Duane's other additions are inferences based on "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident." Akin to Rome, the Romulans are an Oligarchic Republic; a Praetor is elected by the Senate itself, not the people at large. "The Enterprise Incident" showed a Romulan woman with a high military rank. So, "Rihannsu" gave the Romulan society a matriarchial tilt; a Romulan's family lineage is derived from their mother, not their father.

Much of "Rihannsu" is a holdover from the suggestion in "Star Trek: The Original Series" that Romulans were a warrior culture. For instance, their society has a semi-feudal system with a strong emphasis on family affiliation. Canon material would take a different path, showing Romulans as militant but not exactly honorable.

The Next Generation

In "Star Trek: The Next Generation," the Klingons were now good guys (mostly). They also became the go-to warrior race of "Star Trek"; Klingon society took on Viking and Samurai characteristics, where war, personal honor, and feudal affiliation were everything.

The Romulans became less and less the noble Roman-esque adversaries that Schneider had conceived of, with "TNG" instead highlighting their duplicity (with the cloaking devices) and isolationism. Thus, the stereotypical traits of Romulans became paranoia, deception, and xenophobia.

The Romulans were reintroduced in "TNG" season 1 finale, "The Neutral Zone," where it's said they had stayed out of galactic affairs for much of the 24th century. The episode (where several of their colonies are destroyed by the to-be-revealed Borg) awakens them. Creator Gene Roddenberry had initially not wanted to use the Romulans, but poor reception to the Ferengi meant the Federation needed a new adversary. Thus, the Romulans became the most frequent alien antagonist in the series; the Federation and Klingons were united as their enemies. Recurring Romulan villains included Tomalak (Andreas Katsulas) and Sela (Denise Crosby).

The most notable additions to the Romulans in "TNG" included V-shaped forehead ridges (dimorphic evolution from their Vulcan cousins), the D'deridex Class (enormous green warships descended from the Birds-of-Prey from "The Original Series"), and the Tal Shiar, Romulus' secret police.

Romulan highlights in "TNG" include "The Defector" (a Romulan military officer defects to the Federation) and "Reunification" (where Ambassador Spock has begun a push on Romulus for the two peoples to be one again).

The Next Generation (cont'd)

The Romulans weren't as prominent in "Deep Space Nine" as in "The Next Generation," but that series featured them finally uniting with the Federation. While the Federation and Klingons fight a losing war with the expansionist Dominion, the Romulans initially stay on the sidelines.

In the season 6 episode, "In The Pale Moonlight," Captain Sisko (Avery Brooks) and Garak (Andrew Robinson) falsify evidence of the Dominion's plans to invade Romulus and try to sway Senator Vreenak (Stephen McHattie). When their deception is revealed, Garak (with Sisko none the wiser until it's done) pulls a move the Romulans would be proud of: he assassinates Vreenak and frames the Dominion. Thus, the Romulans join the war as allies, and remain so until the series' end.

The Romulans finally got a silver screen spotlight in "Star Trek: Nemesis," the final "TNG" theatrical film. The Romulan Senate is assassinated by a bio-weapon and a new Praetor, Shinzon (Tom Hardy), seizes power. It turns out Shinzon is a failed clone of Picard, the product of an aborted spying operation. The biggest wrinkle "Nemesis" introduces to the Romulans is the Remans. Playing on the pre-established twin planets Romulus and Remus, the grey-skinned Remans are a slave race, toiling as forced laborers and shock troops.

The film skimps on the details of Reman history, so viewers can surmise they evolved on Remus and were subjugated by the Romulans. However, the novel trilogy "Vulcan's Soul" by Josepha Sherman and Susan Shwartz builds on the Remans displaying telepathy like the Vulcans (which the Romulans have always lacked). In this telling, the Remans were Vulcan exiles who refused to give up their telepathy and so were oppressed by the future Romulans; their appearance stems from the poor living conditions on Remus.

Looking to the past

"Star Trek: Enterprise" was a prequel set in the 22nd century, beginning before first contact between humans and Romulans. That event was depicted in the season 2 episode "Minefield," when the Enterprise stumbles into Romulan territory and is disabled by a cloaked minefield. True to canon, only the Romulans' ships are seen in the episode.

The Romulans finally took a larger role in season 4. The three-parter, "The Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara" was about a Vulcan conspiracy to invade the Andorians. The ending revealed that Vulcan Administrator V'Las (Robert Foxworth) was in league with the Romulans and secretly working towards reunification. A subsequent three-parter, "Babel One/United/The Aenar," featured the Romulans as the explicit villains. A Romulan drone-ship, equipped with a holographic projector and controlled by Admiral Valore (Brian Thompson), attacked ships throughout the Alpha Quadrant to ferment dissent (the story begins with it destroying an Andorian ship while disguised as a Tellarite one, it later destroys a Rigellian freighter while disguised as Enterprise, etc.). However, the attacks only wind up bringing the targeted races together.

"Enterprise" established a firm timeframe for the Earth-Romulan War: 2156 to 2160. Moreover, the war was revealed as the event that brought the Federation together; Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites united in a military alliance against Romulan expansionism and never broke apart. The Romulans' increased presence in season 4 was building up to the war, but unfortunately, "Enterprise" was canceled before subsequent seasons could depict it. Thus, the Earth-Romulan War remains undepicted onscreen, confined to novels "Beneath The Raptor's Wings" and "To Brave The Storm" (both by Michael A. Martin).

The home world destroyed

Romulans were again the villains of a "Star Trek" film in director JJ Abrams' eponymous reboot. In the year 2387, Romulus and Remus are destroyed when their star goes supernova, shattering the Empire. Spock manages to contain the explosion with the substance Red Matter, opening a wormhole that sends him back in time to the 23rd century. Following him is the Romulan mining vessel the Narada, captained by vengeful Captain Nero (Eric Bana) — his name is another allusion to ancient Rome . 

The Narada's presence creates an alternate timeline; Nero and his men destroy Vulcan with Red Matter before being defeated themselves. Nero and the Narada's crew stand out from other Romulans thanks to their shaved heads and tattoos; the admittedly non-canon comic "Star Trek: Countdown" suggests this is part of a mourning ritual. Normally the tattoos would fade, but Nero and his crew burnt them into their skin to ensure they'd never forget the loss of their home.

"Star Trek" returned to the "TNG" era with "Picard" and followed on from this point. It turns out that Starfleet offered to help evacuate Romulus, but after an attack on Mars, reneged on the plan; Picard himself resigned in disgust. The Romulans are far from extinct though. The Empire has collapsed into warring factions, one of which is the Romulan Free State. According to "Star Trek: Discovery," Vulcan/Romulan reunification will have become a reality by the 31st century. The groups remain culturally divided, but they again exist on the same planet, renamed from Vulcan to "Ni'var" (meaning two combined into one).

Romulan worldbuilding

Michael Chabon, showrunner of "Picard" season 1, also shared (via Medium) worldbuilding notes on the Romulans . These presumably influenced his onscreen depiction of them. Chabon writes that the Romulans are such secretive people that there is nothing more intimate to them than the truth; marriages have three participants because there must be third-party verification in everything.

The Romulan government is organized like an espionage network, with multiple competing cells, while Romulans all have four names: the common name (used for familiarity), imperial name (the state-recognized name), open name (for outsiders), and their true name (used only for close intimacy). Chabon suggests that a rumored reason for the Romulans' secrecy is the abundance of camouflaged predators on their adopted homeworld; their cloaked warbirds are modeled on a raptor whose plumage blends into the horizon.

Not all depictions of the Romulans totally align — compare Duane's Rihannsu to Chabon's Romulans. However, they all draw upon "The Original Series" and make inferences from there. "Star Trek" writers and fans aren't much different; they both take canon material and expand on it with some imagination.

"Star Trek" and its spin-offs are streaming on Paramount+.

A Complete History of the Romulans in Star Trek

Since The Original Series, the Romulans have been one of Star Trek's most mysterious villains, but who are they and how do they relate to the Vulcans?

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The romulans were created to be star trek 'romans', the timeline of the romulan star empire, the romulan cold war and joining forces against the dominion, the destruction of romulus changed star trek timelines.

Some of the most mysterious villains in Star Trek are the Romulans, whose history with Earth dates back to before the time of Star Trek: The Original Series . The Romulans are depicted as an oppressive group with a militant culture and are arguably even less agreeable than the Klingons. Still, they have united in common cause with the Federation in some instances.

When Star Trek: Discovery advanced the timeline by 900-plus years, the Romulan Star Empire was no more. Their home planet, Romulus, was destroyed. Thanks to Spock's efforts to expose their culture to Vulcan logic, the Romulans found a new home on Ni'var, the renamed Vulcan homeworld. In fact, along with their distant, pointy-eared cousins, the Romulans are part of the Federation in the 32nd Century. Romulans went from unseen enemies in Star Trek 's history to cohabitating with humans' first alien friends, but have plenty of story left to tell.

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Before Star Trek returned for its second wave of stories, the creation of the Romulans was a point of contention. In a featurette on The Original Series Blu-ray, writer and franchise legend Dorothy Fontana said freelance writer Paul Schneider invented them by taking inspiration from the ancient Roman Empire. Schneider confirmed this in Captain's Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyagers by Edward Gross and Mark A. Altman, calling his creation "an extension of the Roman civilization to the point of space travel." This is the impetus for their militaristic society, drive to conquer and fanatical loyalty to the unseen Emperor.

The Romulans appeared twice in Star Trek: The Original Series and weren't fully fleshed out as adversaries until the time of The Next Generation . Originally, they looked just like Vulcans, but makeup supervisor Michael Westmore added forehead ridges and a different hairstyle. The Romulans were considered to be the villains in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock , but the production opted for the more popular Klingons. They would have taken the place of the S'ona in Star Trek: Insurrection . However, Patrick Stewart objected to their inclusion thinking fans wanted a fresh villain. Ironically, the opposite was true.

The Romulans also appeared as villains in Star Trek: Nemesis , Star Trek (2009) and in Season 1 of Star Trek: Picard . Because they were originally introduced as an "offshoot" of Vulcans, Leonard Nimoy appeared as Spock on The Next Generation to send the character to make peace with them. His final mission was to reintegrate the Vulcan and Romulan cultures as one society. Star Trek: Discovery revealed he succeeded indirectly by the 32nd Century. While there was an Earth-Romulan war, this story hasn't been told yet, likely because humans never saw their enemies in the flesh.

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In the Star Trek universe, it was discovered that most humanoid life could trace its genetic origins to a single star-faring species billions of years in the past. They traveled the universe colonizing many planets, and both Vulcans and Romulans share traces of this DNA. At some point in Vulcan's history, before the populace adopted the logic-based philosophy of Surak, a group of Vulcans went to the stars and eventually settled on Romulus. These beings became Romulans, and possibly Remans, the pale-skinned, scaled "slave caste" of the Romulan Star Empire, at least through the late 24th Century.

By the 22nd Century, the Romulan Star Empire was known by Vulcans, yet they had no contact with their long-distant cousins. In fact, this connection was lost to history among Vulcans, although Romulans retained that information. On Star Trek: Enterprise the NX-01 encountered a planet surrounded by cloaked mines. They briefly exchanged communications with this unknown race, but never identified them for certain. Later, the Romulans sent spies to Vulcan to attempt reunification, but when Captain Archer and T'Pring discovered Surak's teachings, the plans fell apart.

A long-distance Romulan plot also attempted to foster war in the galaxy via cloaked drones, controlled telepathically. This caused Captain Archer to form an alliance with founding members of the Federation , thereby starting the process of its creation. In 2156, Earth and Romulus went to war. The Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites united again to defeat them in 2160, whereby the neutral zone was established. The treaty was negotiated via long-distance communication. The Romulans were never seen until the USS Enterprise encountered a cloaked vessel attacking Earth colonies near the edge of the neutral zone.

10 Star Trek Time Travel Stories That Changed Canon

Two years after this encounter, Captain Kirk was ordered to violate the Neutral Zone to steal a cloaking device. He succeeded and captured a Romulan commander as well. Later, in Star Trek: The Animated Series , the Romulans tried to steal the Enterprise, but were defeated. By the late 23rd Century, the Romulan Star Empire had an ambassador at Federation headquarters. He was part of the conspiracy to prevent the Klingon Empire and the Federation from signing the Khitomer Peace Treaty. The Romulans remained isolated until the mid-24th Century.

There was a Cold War between the Empire and the Federation with many incidents amounting to 45 appearances in the second-wave series and films. Notable encounters included the attempted defection of Admiral Alidar Jarok. A Romulan spy impersonated the Vulcan ambassador T'Pel. After a test of a new cloaking device failed, the USS Enterprise-D helped the stranded Romulans. The Enterprise conducted two cover missions on Romulus. First, they were sent to retrieve Spock who had decided to preach Surak's teachings to Romulans. They then sent Deanna Troi to help Vice-Proconsul M'Ret defect to the Federation.

The Romulans still engaged in conflict with the Klingons periodically throughout the 24th Century. They also tried to steal an experimental starship, thwarted by the ship's Emergency Medical Hologram and the EMH from the USS Voyager. The Romulans stayed out of the Dominion War, until Captain Sisko aided Garak in framing the Dominion for the death of one of their ambassadors. They remained allies until the war ended.

Star Trek: Discovery's Kenneth Mitchell Was Heroic On and Off Screen

The film Star Trek: Nemesis took place in 2379, when the Remans rose up against the Romulan masters. A clone of Captain Picard named Shinzon became the new praetor. He brought the USS Enterprise-E to Romulus under the ruse of peace talks, but he needed Picard to heal a medical malady. His plan was to launch a war with the aim of destroying Earth. His defeat led to true diplomatic negotiations, aided by Ambassador Spock. In the 2380s, a cosmic accident destroyed Romulus. Spock and a mining vessel captained by Nero were sent to the past and created an alternate timeline, in which Vulcan was destroyed.

Back in the Prime Timeline, Admiral Picard tried to help refugees from the (now so named) Romulan Free State relocate. The Romulan secret order Zhat Vash used synthetic lifeforms to destroy the Utopia Planitia shipyards and the relocation fleet. Years later, the group attacked two synthetic lifeforms -- "children" of Data -- and a retired Picard helped save them and a planet full of their kind from destruction. A group of Romulans also captured a Borg cube, creating the Borg Reclamation project. The Artifact, as it was called, ended up landing on the planet of synthetics, where they presumably took over the effort.

By the 32nd Century, the Romulans and Vulcans successfully reunified. Vulcan was renamed Ni'var, and while there remained cultural tension, the two cultures lived in relative peace. When a cosmic accident caused all the dilithium crystals to explode, which prevented warp travel and killed countless people, Ni'Var retreated from the Federation. With the help of Captains Michael Burnham and Saru, they agreed to rejoin the union. This means the forthcoming series Starfleet Academy could introduce Romulan cadets.

Star Trek series and films are streaming on Paramount+, save for Star Trek: Prodigy on Netflix and the first ten films currently on Max.

The Star Trek universe encompasses multiple series, each offering a unique lens through which to experience the wonders and perils of space travel. Join Captain Kirk and his crew on the Original Series' voyages of discovery, encounter the utopian vision of the Federation in The Next Generation, or delve into the darker corners of galactic politics in Deep Space Nine. No matter your preference, there's a Star Trek adventure waiting to ignite your imagination.

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9 essential Romulan episodes to watch before Star Trek: Picard

Credit: CBS

If you want to talk about the politics of the Star Trek galaxy, you have to talk about the Romulans. And in order to really understand what's going on in Star Trek: Picard , it's a good time to brush up on your knowledge of the pointy-eared aliens who are not the friendly Vulcans.

Each of the trailers for Star Trek: Picard feature several Romulans, including the sword-wielding Elnor (Evan Evagora), a young member of Picard's new crew, and Narek (Harry Treadway), a bad guy who is clearly up to no good. Additionally, at several points in the trailer, we also see a retro Romulan Bird-of-Prey starship, straight out of the style from the original Star Trek . Notably, Picard also takes place in the aftermath of the future-events of the 2009 Star Trek reboot, in which we learned that the Romulan home planet — Romulus — was destroyed by a giant supernova. So, in theory, the Romulans in the Picard- era will be without a home planet.

Bottom line: The Romulans will be a big deal in the new series. Right now, a three-part IDW comic book series called Picard: Countdown is outlining how Picard tried to help evacuate several Romulan planets while he was still an Admiral in Starfleet. But, the overall history of the Romulans in Star Trek is worth taking a look at.

Here are nine essential Romulan-centric episodes and films to rewatch before Picard debuts.

**Spoiler Warning: There are spoilers ahead for The Next Generation , Deep Space Nine , and the movies. No spoilers ahead for Picard .**

Note: For episode numbers of individual Star Trek series, I'm using the Netflix order, which, in some cases, will differ from the way the episodes aired. However, this order is easiest if you want to stream these right now.

A Romulan commmander sympathizes with Kirk. (Credit: CBS)

01 . The Original Series: Season 1, Episode 15, "Balance of Terror"

The very first Romulan episode ever revealed the greatest bombshell ever: They look almost exactly like Vulcans! This revelation seems to shock Mr. Spock, even though, later in Star Trek canon, we learn that the Romulans did split away from the Vulcans in ancient history. Funnily enough, this very first Romulan is played by Mark Lenard, who, in Season 2 of the original Trek would play Sarek, Spock's dad . (Just try not to think about that.)

In any case, "Balance of Terror," is a stand-out episode of the original series, and when Bryan Fuller was in the process of creating Discovery , he listed this as one the most influential episodes ever. Romulan history starts here!

A Romulan Bird-of-Prey and two repurposed Klingon ships outflank the Enterprise in the remastered version of "The Enterprise Incident." Credit: CBS

02 . The Original Series: Season 3, Episode 2, "The Enterprise Incident"

Ever wonder why people talk about the "Vulcan death grip"? This episode will answer that question! It's also a great espionage episode for Star Trek , and gives us a deeper look at what Romulans are really like. Plus, you really have to wonder why Spock didn't decide to join the Romulans instead of staying on the Enterprise . They were giving him a pretty good deal, and, after this one, you realize that they're not half bad.

By making the Romulans so similar to the Vulcans, they become a complex enemy for the "good guys." Basically, the Romulans aren't doing anything wrong in this episode, and Kirk and Spock are sort of the aggressors.

La Forge teams up with a Romulan named Bochra in "The Enemy." (Credit: CBS)

03 . The Next Generation: Season 3, Episode 7, "The Enemy"

Although The Next Generation reintroduced the Romulans in the Season 1 finale, "The Neutral Zone," it's not really until Season 3 when TNG starts to really get deep into the political problems between the Federation and the Romulans.

"The Enemy" is a great episode because it really gives you a sense of not only how much Picard distrusts Romulans at this point, but also why Klingons like Worf hate them with a crazy burning passion. Like all good Star Trek , this is an episode about poking at prejudices and talking about the long road to peace.

Picard can't even with this Romulan defector. Credit: CBS

04 . The Next Generation: Season 3, Episode 10, "The Defector"

This episode rocks. When a Romulan claims he wants to defect to the Federation, Picard can't believe anything the guy is telling him. Following the events of "The Enemy," this episode doubles-down on the mistrust between the Federation and the Romulan Empire, while also giving us new insight into just how deceitful Romulans can be in order to get what they want. Just like with humans, there are good Romulans and bad ones. This fact will surely be a huge part of Picard .

(Also: Both "The Defector" and "The Enemy" feature Trek 's most famous — and arguably best — Romulan, Tomalak. This character appeared in four TNG episodes in total and was played by the late, great Andreas Katsulas, equally famous for his long role as G'Kar on Babylon 5 . )

Disguised as a Romulan (with hair!) Picard meets with Spock on a secret mission. Credit: CBS

05 . The Next Generation: Season 5, Episodes 7 and 8, "Unification Parts 1 and 2"

"Unification Parts 1 and 2" are the moments when Spock (Leonard Nimoy) famously crossed-over to The Next Generation . This was possible not through time travel, but simply because Vulcans live a lot longer than humans. But outside of the novelty and nostalgia of Spock, "Unification" is focused on secret peace-loving Romulans who want to be more like their Vulcan cousins.

Spock is trying to make this happen, but Sela — the half-human/half-Romulan daughter of Tasha Yar — is trying to sabotage them. We won't see Spock in Picard (unless it's a flashback, he went time-traveling before this show starts) but we could perhaps see Sela. And it's reasonable to assume that the pro-unification Romulans still remember that Picard tried to help them.

Picard finds some common ground with one Romulan in "The Chase." Credit: CBS

06 . The Next Generation: Season 6, Episode 20, "The Chase"

Though this episode isn't about the Romulans specifically, it does concern a larger mystery about why all the aliens in Star Trek essentially look humanoid. When the Romulans learn that they might have something in common not just with Vulcans, but with humans, too, there's an important moment where Picard realizes that maybe they won't all be enemies forever.

It's a faaaake! Credit: CBS

07 . Deep Space Nine: Season 6, Episode 19, "In the Pale Moonlight"

The Romulans are big players in the galactic politics of Deep Space Nine , and you could go on a huge binge on that series, too. But, the most relevant Romulan episode from that series is one in which Captain Sisko (Avery Brooks) has to try and outright lie to the Romulans in order to get them to do what Starfleet wants. Its a brilliant study in ethics, and is considered one of the finest moments of Deep Space Nine for a reason.

And, like "The Enterprise Incident," this episode is all about the good guys trying to out-fox the Romulans, which is a tricky game to play because the Romulan government is really good at espionage and lying.

The Enterprise prepares to ram Shinzon's ship. Credit: Paramount

08 . Star Trek: Nemesis (2002)

In terms of the regular timeline, the last time we saw the Romulan homeworld, the planet Romulus, Tom Hardy was running the show! This is hard to believe, but in Nemesis , Hardy played Shinzon, a younger clone of Jean-Luc Picard, who was briefly running the Romulan Empire.

Interestingly, Nemesis is also the first time we had any details about the planet Remus, Romulus's sister planet. (Back in the episode "Balance of Terror," Spock mentioned that Remus existed, but we never saw it, or the Remans, until this movie.)

Nemesis is a flawed film and not everyone's cup of Earl Grey Tea. But, in terms of the timeline, this is the last time we saw Picard in action before the events of the new series. And, relevantly, Picard was very hopeful about peace with the Romulans at this point... even though his evil clone was trying to murder him and steal his blood.

Nero (Eric Bana) trying to kill Captain Kirk. Credit: Paramount

09 . Star Trek (2009)

The Romulans in the J.J. Abrams-directed Star Trek reboot may have tried to kill Captain Kirk, Captain Pike, and Spock, but these Romulans are actually from the 24th century, not the 23rd. In fact, chronologically speaking, the backstory of the Star Trek reboot is the closest thing to a direct prequel to Star Trek: Picard . (Other than "Children of Mars," of course.)

When Prime Universe Spock (Leonard Nimoy) mind-melds with Kirk (Chris Pine) in the Kelvin Universe, he reveals that the planet Romulus was destroyed by a supernova, which happened roughly in the year 2387. So, Nero (Eric Bana), the Romulan captain hell-bent on revenge in that movie, is actually from Picard's time, not Kirk's. And Nero's journey back in time will have happened about a decade before the events of Star Trek: Picard .

Now, it's not clear if Picard will reveal why some Romulans started shaving their heads during this time period, but the fact is, the most recent events in Romulan history are depicted in this movie, and because both Spock and Picard tried to help the Romulans at various points in time, you can bet the destruction of Romulus will be mentioned in the new show. A lot.

And, perhaps most relevantly, the co-screenwriter of this film was Alex Kurtzman, who not only is a co-creator of Picard , but also basically the current overseer of the entire Star Trek franchise.

• Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
• Star Trek: Picard
• Star Trek: The Next Generation

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Published Dec 6, 2022

The Romulans: Federation Foes and Sometimes Their Darkest Mirror

Looking back at three key moments when the Federation had, perhaps, more in common with their Romulan enemies than they realized.

StarTrek.com / Rob DeHart

Over Star Trek 's many decades, the development of rival civilizations that spar with the Federation have been a key aspect of the franchise's ever-increasing complexity. Amongst them, the Romulans have often been at the center of some of the show's most fascinating stories. Since their introduction in The Original Series , the Romulans have been frequently positioned as an expansionist, power-hungry empire that, despite its ambitions, was always cautious when it came to starting a war.

As a result of that dichotomy, not only did their skirmishes with the Federation reflect the politics of each respective era, they would frequently expose the darker aspects of our protagonists. The men and women serving in Starfleet are supposed to represent the best qualities of humanity, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of prejudice, hatred, and more.

"In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Star Trek: The Original Series - Balance of Terror

The Original Series episode " Balance of Terror ," written by Paul Schneider and directed by Vincent McEveety, features tense action, sharp themes, complex characters and, just like many of the best TOS episodes, a heavy use of metaphor that probably could be toned down a degree or five. It's also the first introduction of the Romulans, and an early example of Star Trek acknowledging that even Starfleet officers are capable of humanity's darker qualities.

StarTrek.com

In “Balance of Terror,” a happy marriage between two lower-deck crewmembers is interrupted by an attack on a nearby outpost bordering the Neutral Zone between Starfleet and the Romulans. Three others were destroyed recently, and Kirk is under orders to avoid starting a war as the Enterprise investigates.

Much has been said about the tension of the episode, in particular the battle scenes that echo destroyer versus submarine warfare. But what's key about "Balance of Terror" is how, while Kirk faces off against the mysterious Romulan forces, another threat is found in Bridge officer Lieutenant Stiles. Stiles is the rare exception to the normally idealistic nature of Starfleet officers; he lost family in the last war with the Romulans and still openly holds a grudge.

Not only does he harbor a blunt prejudice towards the Romulans, but when the Enterprise is finally able to get a glimpse of what Romulans look like now, Stiles notes the resemblance between them and Vulcans, and begins to suspect that Spock is a spy and a traitor.

While the episode presents Stiles as having understandable reasons for his hatred of the Romulans (even Spock agrees that there is reason to distrust them), there's a vast difference between his perception of the Romulans as war-hungry savages and how the Romulan Commander behaves in the episode. While he's cunning, devious, skilled at battle, and willing to perform sneak attacks as a testing ground for a potential war, the commander is also wise and war-weary. It's a third of the way through the episode before he appears, but when he speaks to his closest friend, he speaks of regret for the war that he's bringing back home. Throughout "Balance of Terror," Kirk and the unnamed Commander praise their respective counterparts, and through Kirk's own reluctant admiration of the Commander, we see the Romulan as not a vicious enemy that must be defeated, but a worthy opponent we don't wish to see die.

But die he must, and his ending is just as ironic as it is tragic. His final moments in a crippled warbird are seen on the Enterprise viewscreen, a stark echo of the final transmission from Outpost 4. When Stiles spoke of the Romulans earlier on as vicious warmongers, in the aftermath of a sneak attack that murdered countless people, we agreed. But the Commander's final words to Kirk — "I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind." — speak once again about how the Romulans are far less alien than Stiles thinks.

"Where does it end, Worf?"

Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Enemy

With the Klingons as allies of the Federation during most of Star Trek: The Next Generation , it was the Romulans that became frequent adversaries of the Enterprise-D . But it's not until the third season of TNG that an episode really got the chance to explore who the Romulans are.

" The Enemy ," written by David Kemper and Michael Piller and directed by David Carson, centered around Geordi, Worf, and Picard, focused on how to deal with an enemy that you don't want to fight, and the dark legacy of war. The Enterprise arrives on a barren, uninhabitable rock in Federation space called Galorndon Core in response to a distress signal, and soon discovers debris from a Romulan ship. They find one injured Romulan there, but the party gets split up, and Geordi is left behind on the planet with a damaged VISOR. There's no escape unless he can manipulate a probe just right, but in order to do so, he has to convince the Romulan he's stuck with to put down his weapon to help him.

While Geordi breaks through his captor's defenses and gets him to open up is always good to see as Picard's verbal sparring with the Romulan captain Tomalak is Patrick Stewart at his snappiest, it's Worf's interactions with the Romulan that hit the hardest. On the ship, the rescued Romulan is dying, and can only be saved if Worf donates tissue to him. Worf, whose parents died in a Romulan attack, has no interest in doing so. As he says to Riker, "I am asked to give up the very lifeblood of my mother and my father to those who murdered them!"

His meetings with Riker and Picard in the episode show two conflicting facts; Worf knows that his duty is to go through with the donation. He states that he will do so if ordered, and even implies that he wants to be given that order — but it's an order that Picard cannot bring himself to give, and the Romulan dies.

Sure, the Romulan does himself no favors, declaring that he'd rather die than have Klingon tissue within himself. But it's not really about whether or not the Romulan is a good person, as Picard points out and Worf agrees with. A dead Romulan on a Starfleet ship is a reason for the Romulans to go to war, a war that the Federation might win but doesn't want. It's a story about mutual hatred, trust, suspicion, and a war that seems like it's only a single mistake away, averted at the last moment.

The relationship between the Federation and Romulans seems to echo that of the attitude between the NATO powers and the U.S.S.R. during the late 1980s. Both superpowers, both wary of war, both filled with hatred and suspicion towards the other. It's a message that no doubt resonated quite a bit when it aired, three days before the fall of the Berlin Wall. But it's one that resonates on a universal level, as lingering prejudices continue to haunt the politics of today, Even people as ethically noble as the Enterprise crew have a hard time forgetting what came before.

"It may be a very messy, very... bloody business."

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - In the Pale Moonlight

While past Romulan tales often reveal the Federation at its darkest, no episode of the franchise did so quite like Deep Space Nine 's " In The Pale Moonlight ," written by Michael Taylor and Peter Allan Fields and directed by Victor Lobl. It’s possibly the most DS9-y episode the series ever produced, laying out a plot which forces good people to do rotten things because the cost of not doing those things is so much worse. It may be the powerful Dominion that has put the Federation in a war that they're losing, but the Romulans could change everything if they could be convinced to enter the fray.

Captain Sisko decides he has to get the Romulans to join the Federation in fighting the war, which means convincing Romulan Senator Vreenak that the Dominion will go after the Romulans next. It's a story with a brusque but honest and honorable man on one side, and on the other, a deceptive, scheming individual attempting to mislead his counterpart for his own people's benefit.

What makes the episode soar is that Vreenak, despite being in favor of staying neutral in the war and being quite rude towards Sisko at points, is the honorable one. The Romulans are suspicious, paranoid, and holding firm to their old feelings of supremacy, but it could be argued that they're just doing what the Federation might otherwise do — stay out of a war that does not directly involve them yet.

To get the Romulans involved, Sisko teams up with Garak, the incomparable Cardassian tailor who Sisko knows is willing to fight dirty. He arranges the freedom of a forger to help with the task. He bribes a man to cover up assault and attempted murder. And he does nothing when his morally-flexible ally murders the Senator to secure the win.

The Romulans have always been good at getting under the skin of our Starfleet heroes, through old tragedies, through ruthless schemes that are always a few moments from success. But throughout their appearances, they're frequently portrayed as very human, perhaps more so than the Klingons, Vulcans, or Ferengi we see in Star Trek — which is why they're able to bring out the latent darkness of our heroes. From the first Romulan we ever saw, to the tragic victim of assassination that paves the way for humanity's victory, their culture may be different, but they certainly aren't.

This article was originally published on October 3, 2020.

Liz Shannon Miller (her/hers) is an LA-based writer and editor who has been covering the world of pop culture for over 10 years for publications including Vulture, Variety, The AV Club, The Hollywood Reporter, IGN, The Verge, and Thought Catalog. She is also a produced playwright, a host of podcasts, and a repository of X-Files trivia — find her on Twitter as @lizlet.

Eric Miller (he/him) is an LA-based Star Trek fan with aspirations of writing and talent. He works in the video game industry, at least when he's not busy arguing online about which science fiction show is superior.

Stay tuned to StarTrek.com for more details! And be sure to follow @StarTrek on Facebook , Twitter , and Instagram .

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14 Burning Questions We Have After Star Trek: Picard Season 3's Finale

14 burning questions we have after star trek: picard season 3's finale, picard is over, but plenty of questions remain about what it all means for star trek 's future..

Star Trek: Picard came to an end this week, wrapping a nostalgic season up in a tidy bow of spectacle and sentiment . And although, as Star Trek has told us before, all good things must come to an end, even now questions still linger about the future of these characters . Here’s the ones at the forefront of our mind after Picard season three .

Where’s Laris?

Oh, poor Laris. Orla Brady’s Romulan aide and former secret police badass was a stalwart of seasons one and two of Picard , and even in her brief appearance in the beginning of this season, it felt like the romantic push-and-pull between her and Jean-Luc was going to lead to something. The last time we saw her she was being sent away to the planet Chaltok IV to act as diplomatic security—a mission she was meant to go on with Picard, until he was drawn away. What’s happened to her now that Beverly Crusher has re-entered Jean-Luc’s life?

What’s the Deal With Borg-Jurati?

The final episode puts an end to the Borg Collective as we know it, with the death of the Borg Queen, her forces already devastated by the neurolythic pathogen used by Admiral Janeway in Voyager ’s finale. But... there are other Borg out there. It’s hard to say if there are any Borg still remaining in the Delta Quadrant, as what the Queen reveals here seems to imply she is the last of her kind, but the Borg Queen of the alternate timeline that assimilated and fused with Dr. Jurati in Picard ’s bonkers second season to form an alliance between this new, more amicable collective and the Federation are nowhere to be seen this season.

Early on in the season, Captain Shaw notes that this minor c ollective is still guarding the transwarp conduit that emerged in the season two finale. So they’re busy, but not “ oh so the actual Borg of this timeline are here and trying to destroy Earth” busy.

Why Did Starfleet Want “Fleet Formation” i n the First Place?

Simple answer: Starfleet command really loves bad ideas.

This is far from the first time we’ve seen the hubris of Starfleet’s upper echelons make a really dumb decision, but there’s something equally hilarious about the fact there has been, thanks to Prodigy and Lower Decks , a history of Starfleet seeing just how badly automated ship systems can go for them, and them deciding to just do it again but bigger. Never change, Starfleet command.

Are There Still Rogue Changelings Out There?

With the destruction of the Shrike and the end of Vadic’s cell, Picard pretty much dropped the changeling infiltration of Starfleet subplot dead in its tracks for its final two episodes. But one minor moment in the finale does at least confirm that elements of the Great Link are still trying to subvert the outcome of the D ominion W ar—the new transporter detection technology Beverly developed to wipe the Borg’s organic virus planted into the fleetwide system now also does an improved job of detecting changeling saboteurs , evolving as they themselves evolved in the years since Deep Space 9 .

What Happened to the Enterprise-F?

Picard ends with the Titan re-christened as the new Enterprise -G, meaning the F, briefly seen on-screen before disaster struck in the penultimate episode—and the Enterprise of Star Trek Online , where its design originated—has either itself been re-christened, or it got hit way harder in the Borg attack than we’d assumed.

We saw Admiral Shelby killed in action when the Borg assimilation spread through the fleet, but nothing about the Enterprise -F going down. A year’s passed since the Titan was re-christened though, so hopefully the Odyssey-class vessel is still out there in service, even if not as the de facto flagship of Starfleet. Hell, maybe they gave it the Titan name?

Why Hasn’t Wesley Ever Visited His Mom?

The once-again agent of t he Traveler made a brief cameo in season two ’s finale to whisk away Kore Soong as a new recruit, but is nowhere to be seen in season three , even if he is referenced a few times. H e’s spoken about in such a way that Beverly now sees Wes’ return to the Traveler sometime after returning to Starfleet by the time of Star Trek: Nemesis as the loss of her son altogether. But if Wesley could just pop up and take Kore off... couldn’t have at least said hi to Beverly and his half-brother at some point?

Where’s Admiral Janeway?

Okay, I am going to allow myself one tiny bit of Voyager fanboying amid this sea of TNG fanboying: Kathryn Janeway wasn’t there to see Seven be promoted to captain? To take command of the Enterprise !? Janeway got a nod earlier in the season at least, but still. Kate Mulgrew’s back in the Trek family thanks to Prodigy ! It would’ve been nice to see her and Seven together again, and for both she and Tuvok to see how far their friend had come.

What Happened to Soji and the Other Synths?

The last time we saw Soji—the synthetic descendant of Data and ambassador for her people to the Federation after they decided to un-ban synthetic beings from being researched and developed—she was off on a whirlwind diplomatic tour to promote her kind to the wider galaxy. And... that’s it. That’s presumably what she’s still doing by the time of season three , but not a mention goes by, either in the context of Data’s return or just, like, in general.

What Were the Klingons and Romulans Up to When Earth Was Attacked?

Starfleet’s assimilation happens quick enough that it’s probably no surprise that neither the Klingon Empire nor what is left of the Romulan Star Empire—after all, it’s still in a rough state after the events of season one of Picard and the destruction of Romulus in the 2009 Star Trek movie—have time to show up to help.

But at the same time, were there no changelings trying to infiltrate them? Yes, it was Starfleet intelligence and Section 31 who experimented on Vadic and her allies specifically, but the Klingons and eventually the Romulans were enemies of the Dominion too.

Where Did Jack’s Photo of His Parents Come From?

Considering Jack didn’t exactly have a relationship with Picard while growing up, and Beverly cut him out of her life, it’s kind of weird that Jack gets to christen his quarters on the Enterprise -G with a picture of Picard and Crusher attending some kind of fancy soiree. It’s clearly from, in-universe, a point in time during their service on the Enterprise -D, but in ours? It’s a 1988 KCET photo of Gates McFadden and Patrick Stewart.

How Is Q Alive?

Q supposedly died giving Picard and his friends the temporal energy to travel back to the 25th century when they got stuck in 2024. But he’s back and seemingly fine, just in time to start harassing Jack. How?

Well, the easy answer was that he was never really dying, and just trying to help Picard work through things. The other easy answer: Q’s always been a liar. Why stop now?

What Does He Want With Jack Crusher?

Obviously, Jack’s connection to Jean-Luc makes him a target of interest to someone like Q. But there’s also this idea of a new generation of Starfleet officers now leading the Federation’s efforts. C an Q really satisfy his curiosity with humanity if at this point Jean-Luc is just by and large out of the picture?

Are They Really Going to Do Star Trek: Legacy ?

Well, it’s hard to say. Paramount is currently in the process of consolidating a lot of Star Trek efforts— Picard is over, Discovery will be next year, Michelle Yeoh’s Section 31 project has been turned into a movie rather than the originally greenlit series. With new seasons of Prodigy , Lower Decks , and Strange New Worlds all ordered, and the Starfleet Academy series greenlit, is there space to expand further with Legacy ?

It’s likely going to be more on that end than any of Picard ’s cast and creative team—who’ve been spending much of the third season’s airing openly discussing how they want to do more with these characters. The hook is there with the Enterprise -G, and that post-credit Q stinger.

And Would Patrick Stewart Return i n It?

Even if Picard ends with a not-final, but pretty-final farewell to the TNG crew and Jean-Luc, Patrick Stewart is open if there is some kind of continuity to play an occasional part.

“The circumstances, as it was with Picard , would be the important factor in all of that,” Stewart told Variety in the wake of the finale. “But certainly, there is a wonderful future for Ed [Speleers] there, I’m sure of it. And if I can occasionally crop up to offer a little bit of comedy myself, then I shall be happy to do that.”

So... it’s in Paramount’s court at this point.

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Romulus was the adopted homeworld of the Romulans and capital planet of the Romulan Star Empire . The planet was also known as ch'Rihan (lit. "of the Declared" in the Romulan language ) and 128 Trianguli III-A (in the astronomical notation of Earth ). In yet another language, the planet was known as Rom'laas , and in another catalog system, Ket-cheleb III .

• 1.1 Overview
• 1.2.1 Alternate timelines
• 1.3 Defenses
• 1.4.1 Bodies of water
• 1.4.2 Continents (and provinces)
• 1.4.3 Geographic features
• 1.4.4.1 Points of interest
• 1.4.5 Moons and satellites
• 1.5.1 Flora
• 1.5.2 Fauna
• 2.1 Connections
• 2.2 References
• 2.3 External link

History and specifics [ ]

Its tidally-locked "sister world" was known as Remus . Together, Romulus and Remus were sometimes called the Hearthworlds . Remus and the planet Romulus had a "Trojan relationship" in the way they revolved around each other. The sun around which Romulus orbited was known as Eisn , which formed the binary Romulan system together with Romulus B .

Romulus was a lush, humid world abundant with vegetation and large bodies of water, and was designated a Minshara class world. The planet had two moons , Pirek and Elvreng . ( TOS novels : Rihannsu: The Bloodwing Voyages ; Last Unicorn RPG module : The Way of D'era: The Romulan Star Empire ; TNG video game : Echoes from the Past )

The Klingon name for the planet, romuluS , is derived from the Federation Standard name. ( tlhIngan Hol reference : Klingon for the Galactic Traveler )

Overview [ ]

Romulus vicinity.

The planet was noted as being rich in different kinds of organic life with a climate far better then what was present on Vulcan with abundant supplies of water with much larger seas. Varying types of habitations were also present from deserts to volcanic regions with firefalls. Though it was rich in organic life, its metal content was somewhat rarer with much of it being present deep within the planet, which was a contrast to the world's sister planet. ( TOS - Vulcan's Soul novel : Exiles )

As such, it was seen as a resource poor world compared to its sister planet with Romulus lacking fossil fuels, hard metals and radioactive materials. ( FASA RPG module : The Romulans )

Transporter beams were typically not used for interplanetary travel on the home world. ( TNG novel : Dead Zone )

Romulus on the explored galaxy map.

Romulus was noted on star charts of the galaxy 's explored regions in the 23rd and 24th centuries , in an area of the projection also containing Remus , Ingraham B and the Romulan Neutral Zone . ( TOS movie : The Undiscovered Country , TNG episodes : " Conspiracy ", " The Measure of a Man ", " The Emissary ", " The Mind's Eye ", " The Game ", DS9 episodes : " In the Hands of the Prophets ", " Cardassians ")

History [ ]

Historians believe that Romulus and its sister world of Remus were in fact once a single large planetoid known as Romii. The biggest change that geologists have determined to have to Romii was five-point three billion years ago when another planetary body, which was at least sixty percent the size of Romii and in retrograde orbit, collided with the large planet. The impact stripped the outer crust from Romii and, in less then two hundred years, the ejecta had coalesced into a single body that would eventually cool to become the planet known as Romulus which would continue to spin with the force of that ancient catastrophic collision. ( TOS novel : Captain's Blood )

According to one account it was named by the Vulcan Exiles after an ancient myth of twin god-brothers. Another account said that the planet was named after the mythical home of the Vulcan god Ket-cheleb known as Rom'laas . Terise Haleakala-LoBrutto , a human anthropologist who lived among the Romulans in secret for many years, maintained in her magnum opus The Romulan Way that the names Romulus and Remus were assigned by Federation explorers . ( Last Unicorn RPG module : The Way of D'era: The Romulan Star Empire ; TOS - Rihannsu novel : The Romulan Way )

Sometime in the 23rd or 24th century , Kor attacked the world. Also, at some point, Elim Garak served as a gardener on the planet. ( ST website  : StarTrek.com )

In 2376 , this was listed as the host location of a current or past marathon. ( New Worlds, New Civilizations short story : " The Footfalls of Tradition ")

Romulus was completely destroyed when the Hobus star went nova in 2387 . Prior to the destruction, Spock attempted to warn the Romulan Senate that the supernova posed a threat to both the planet and the entire Romulan Star Empire, but was rebuffed. However, a few weeks later, the Romulan Senate observed that the Hobus star was increasing in mass and was growing more unstable which led to them concluding that Spock was correct. A scientist predicted that it would take a few weeks at most for the shockwave to reach Romulus once the star went nova. Praetor Chulan proclaimed he would put the matter up for vote in the Senate, then gave the order to begin evacuation protocols for Romulus.

The shockwave from the Hobus detonation proved so violent it breached subspace and propagated far faster than the speed of light, reaching the Romulan system in only 27 hours. The entire system was obliterated and billions of Romulans and Remans died. The praetor was among the survivors and promised that the empire would survive, and that he would find his people a new home. However, Chulan and the survivors of the Senate were killed by Nero soon after in revenge for their prior inaction. ( ST comic : " Countdown "; TOS movie , novelization & comic adaptation : Star Trek ; STO website  : The Path to 2409 )

Alternate timelines [ ]

In the "anti-time" future to which Q helped Jean-Luc Picard travel, the year 2396 saw an outbreak of Tarellian plague on Romulus. ( TNG episode : " All Good Things... ")

Defenses [ ]

Romulus is defended by the "Kaur'el Tennahrex" (the High Fortress), a massive orbital defense platform. The orbital battle station was originally built in the 22nd century. The battle station was upgraded and expanded in the 23rd century, and again in the mid-24th century. It was a space station with 50 docking ports for the D'deridex-class Warbirds or smaller warships, and 200 docking ports for smaller vessels.

The Kaur'el Tennahrex had a crew of 4,325, an additional 2,770 inhabitants, and had a maximum capacity of 27,500. It was equipped with 35 tractor beam arrays, 40 personnel transporters, and 80 cargo transporters. The station's defenses consisted of a deflector shield, 50 plasma torpedo launchers, and Type S Disruptor cannons. The battle station also controlled a huge network of smaller defense satellites which were scattered around the planet and nearby space. Assigned to the station were 6 D'deridex-class warbirds, 24 smaller warships, 12 warp shuttles, 12 scout ships, and 100 work bee-type craft. ( Last Unicorn RPG module : The Way of D'era: The Romulan Star Empire )

Geography [ ]

Romulus surface map.

Planet Romulus.

Bodies of water [ ]

Continents (and provinces) [ ].

• Daal'Gareth

Geographic features [ ]

• Firefalls of Gal Gath'thong
• Valley of Chula
• Jeweled Forest of Ath'reshaar
• Mount Al'kathel
• T'aresh Mountains
• Kae'raktar Mountains
• Anverok Mountains
• Des'Reval Mountains
• Sen'lanarc Mountains
• Allerah Mountains
• Ladrosh Mountains
• Raas'trek Mountains
• Keldrak Peninsula
• Beld'Rath Peninsula
• Valley of Fire
• D'vrex Archipelago
• Sath'har Archipelago
• Uulmar Islands
• Wall of Fire
• G'aareld va Groth'Chok
• Karethvek volcano

Cities and settlements [ ]

• Aekhhwi'rhoi
• Government Quarter
• Krocton Segment
• Rarathik District
• Val'danadex Trel
• Atremon Trel
• Gav'ros Trel
• Bareldak Trel
• Kromtar Trel

Points of interest [ ]

• Hall of State
• Citadel Var'Theldun ( Tal Shiar HQ )
• Romulan Intelligence Academy
• Astrophysics Academy
• Boulevard of Heroes
• Plaza of the Endless Sky
• Imperial Palace
• Mirek shipyards , Mirek spaceport
• Maritime Museum
• Fareldi Brewery
• Chula House
• Imperial Academy of Arts
• Hall of Columns

Moons and satellites [ ]

• Pirek ("The Leaper")
• Kaur'el Tennahrex ("The High Fortress"), orbital military defense platform
• Veldras Orbital Power Facility

Natural history [ ]

• Nocturnal crawling spine
• Romulan Fig Tree
• Tikrik grass
• White Star of Night
• Y'gora tree
• Romulan green whale

Appendices [ ]

Connections [ ], references [ ].

• Last Unicorn RPG module : The Way of D'era: The Romulan Star Empire
• ST video game : Starfleet Command III
• PIC novel : Firewall

<reflist/>

External link [ ]

• Romulus article at Memory Alpha , the wiki for canon Star Trek .
• ↑ 1.0 1.1 ST reference : Star Charts
• ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 Last Unicorn RPG module : The Way of D'era: The Romulan Star Empire
• 1 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition
• 3 Odyssey class

DS9 Almost Had Star Trek's First Romulan Crew Member

• Star Trek: DS9 almost had its first Romulan crew member in "The Search" but the character was dropped.
• USS Defiant broke Starfleet rules by having a cloaking device assigned by the Romulans, overseen by Sub Commander T'Rul.
• Sub Commander T'Rul was supposed to be a recurring character, but the producers saw limited potential.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine had plans to introduce the franchise's first Romulan crew member, but the character was abandoned after only two episodes. After centuries of being enemies, the threat posed by the Dominion eventually forced the Federation into an alliance with the Romulan Star Empire in DS9 season 6. Three years earlier, there were plans to introduce a recurring Romulan crew member to the cast of Star Trek: DS9 in the two-part season 3 opener, "The Search".

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine season 3, episode 1, "The Search, Part 1" has a number of firsts for the show. "The Search" introduces the USS Defiant, Lt. Commander Michael Eddington (Kenneth Marshall), the Female Changeling (Salome Jens), and also reveals that the Changelings are the mysterious Dominion Founders. DS9 's Dominion War timeline officially starts with the first meeting between the Female Changeling and Commander Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) in "The Search". However, "The Search" almost introduced another recurring character that could have been just as important.

Star Trek: DS9 Needed USS Defiant & Season 2's Finale Is Proof

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine wasn't supposed to have a starship, but huge developments in its season 2 finale proved why Sisko needed the USS Defiant.

DS9s Defiant Was Supposed To Have A Romulan Crew Member

In Star Trek: Deep Space Nine season 3, episode 1, "The Search, Part 1", Commander Sisko returns to the station with the USS Defiant. Starfleet's first purpose-built warship for decades, the Defiant was assigned to DS9 to provide more substantial protection from the Dominion and the Jem'Hadar. To better defend itself against the might of the Dominion, the USS Defiant broke a big Starfleet rule by having a cloaking device fitted. However, the cloak was sanctioned by the Romulan Star Empire, who assigned their own officer, Sub Commander T'Rul (Martha Hackett) to oversee its use.

Rick Berman initally resisted the idea of the USS Defiant having a cloaking device because it contradicted Gene Roddenberry's belief that " Starfleet doesn't sneak around ".

Like Michael Eddington, Sub Commander T'Rul was supposed to be another recurring member of the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine cast. However, DS9 's producers quickly decided that there wasn't much story potential in the character of T'Rul, and quietly dropped the Romulan from the crew of the Defiant. It seems short-sighted that DS9 's producers didn't see the story potential in Star Trek 's first recurring Romulan crew member, but on the plus side, it gave them more space to develop the Eddington character into a Maquis traitor.

Star Trek: Picard 's Elnor (Evan Evagora) was Starfleet's first fully Romulan officer, graduating from the Academy decades after T'Rul served aboard the USS Defiant.

What Happened To Martha Hackett After Star Trek: DS9

Martha Hackett wasn't too disappointed by Sub Commander T'Rul being dropped from any further appearances in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine . While filming DS9 's "The Search", Hackett was offered the part of Seska in Star Trek: Voyager , which was due to start airing the following year. As a former Starfleet enemy serving aboard a Federation starship, Seska shared something in common with DS9 's Sub Commander T'Rul. However, Seska was an unrepentant villain, who made life incredibly difficult for the crew of the USS Voyager during their early days in the Delta Quadrant.

Martha Hackett originally auditioned for the role of Jadzia Dax in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine .

Sub Commander T'Rul in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine had the potential to improve relations between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire. DS9 excelled at showing the relatable side of some of Star Trek 's most infamous enemy aliens, from the Ferengi to the Cardassians. Having a Romulan officer aboard the USS Defiant could have fundamentally changed how they were seen in the wider Star Trek universe. Instead, Martha Hackett's character was dropped, nixing any possibility to develop this idea further. While this is a loss for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine , it was ultimately a gain for Star Trek: Voyager .

All episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager are available to stream on Paramount+

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, also known as DS9, is the fourth series in the long-running Sci-Fi franchise, Star Trek. DS9 was created by Rick Berman and Michael Piller, and stars Avery Brooks, Ren Auberjonois, Terry Farrell, and Cirroc Lofton. This particular series follows a group of individuals in a space station near a planet called Bajor.

Cast Terry Farrell, Cirroc Lofton, Rene Auberjonois, Nicole de Boer, Michael Dorn, Andrew Robinson, Nana Visitor, Avery Brooks, Colm Meaney, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig

Writers Ira Steven Behr, Michael Piller, Ronald D. Moore

Showrunner Ira Steven Behr, Michael Piller

Where To Watch Paramount+

Star Trek: Voyager

The fifth entry in the Star Trek franchise, Star Trek: Voyager, is a sci-fi series that sees the crew of the USS Voyager on a long journey back to their home after finding themselves stranded at the far ends of the Milky Way Galaxy. Led by Captain Kathryn Janeway, the series follows the crew as they embark through truly uncharted areas of space, with new species, friends, foes, and mysteries to solve as they wrestle with the politics of a crew in a situation they've never faced before.

Cast Jennifer Lien, Garrett Wang, Tim Russ, Robert Duncan McNeill, Roxann Dawson, Robert Beltran, Kate Mulgrew, Jeri Ryan, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo

Writers Kenneth Biller, Jeri Taylor, Michael Piller, Brannon Braga

Showrunner Kenneth Biller, Jeri Taylor, Michael Piller, Brannon Braga

Chris Pine’s Best Moment As Star Trek’s Captain Kirk Isn’t the One You Think

Hint: It doesn't involve the Kobayashi Maru test.

The Big Picture

• Chris Pine's portrayal of James T. Kirk in Star Trek showcases a journey from selfishness to selflessness, reflecting growth and heroism.
• The film reboots the iconic sci-fi franchise with action-packed sequences and a new timeline that sets up the origins of Kirk and Spock's friendship. Pine's best moment as Captain Kirk is in the final sequence of the film where he and Spock work together to infiltrate the Narada .
• Pine brings sensitivity to Kirk's character, fulfilling his father's legacy and showcasing a vulnerability that highlights his heroic transition.

There really should not be a debate over who is Hollywood’s “Best Chris,” as Chris Pine has easily proven himself as an actor of real depth . Between his steely role in the neo-Western Hell or High Water and his charismatic romanticism as Steve Trevor in the Wonder Woman films, Pine has shown that he’s capable of standing out within talented ensembles. However, the challenges he faced when stepping into the role of James T. Kirk in the reboot of the Star Trek franchise were immeasurable. While William Shatner’s performance has been cited as the gold standard of overacting, Pine brought a surprising sensitivity and nuance to his role as the younger Captain Kirk.

The mythology of Star Trek is quite dense, but director J.J. Abrams' 2009 reboot serves as a great entry point for newcomers to the franchise. By taking place within an alternate universe known as the “Kelvin Timeline,” the new trilogy was able to forge a new direction and show the events leading up to the iconic episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series . Longtime fans may have struggled accepting a new actor in Shatner’s iconic role, but Pine gave Kirk a complete character arc during the action-packed conclusion of 2009’s Star Trek when he and Spock worked together to infiltrate the Narada.

Star Trek (2009)

J.J. Abrams' 2009 movie Star Trek rebooted the iconic sci-fi franchise in a totally new timeline. When a Romulan ship travels back in time and alters the past, the lives of James T. Kirk (Chris Pine), Spock (Zachary Quinto), and the future crew of the USS Enterprise are drastically changed. In this new timeline, the Romulan Nero (Eric Bana) sets out for revenge on Spock, setting off a chain of events that reshape the entire universe.

Chris Pine's Best Moment as Kirk Comes in 'Star Trek's Final Act

While the original Star Trek series took place in an established universe, the reboot film examines how Kirk rose from a humble background to become one of the bravest and most accomplished captains in the history of Starfleet . Bravery is always in his wheelhouse, but Kirk starts off the film as a selfish jerk who only uses Starfleet to advance his own ego. Kirk essentially decides to enlist in Starfleet Academy in order to win a bet with Captain Christopher Pike ( Bruce Greenwood ). Following this, he seems more interested in starting feuds with Spock ( Zachary Quinto ) and flirting with Lieutenant Uhura ( Zoe Saldaña ) than he is fulfilling the Prime Directive. However, a pivotal conversation with Spock Prime ( Leonard Nimoy ) indicates to Kirk that he has a greater legacy to fulfill.

Pine shows in Star Trek's conclusion that Kirk has grown more responsible. His mission is a critical one; the ruthless Romulan, Captain Nero ( Eric Bana ), has already destroyed the planet Vulcan, and is intent on leading an attack on Earth. While Pine has always done a great job at showing that Kirk has a keen sense of humor, his complexion grows far more grave when he informs his crew about the impending mission. Kirk realizes that everything he came from, including his family and friends on Earth, is at stake. It’s the first instance in the film where he develops a knack for heroism that is entirely selfless, and not out of a desperate attempt to prove himself worthy to the other characters.

What Happened to the 'Madame Web' Director's Star Trek Movie?

While the final sequence includes the type of kinetic action that is common in Abrams’ films , Star Trek shows how Pine’s Kirk has learned from his eclectic experiences . Kirk has spent a majority of the film sneaking around Starfleet facilities in order to solidify his place within the crew of the Enterprise ; it's fitting that his finest hour involves infiltrating an advanced spacecraft in a daring and heroic mission that doesn’t follow official protocols. Kirk’s final brawl with the ruthless Romulan villain Ayel ( Clifton Collins Jr. ) shows how his checkered past ends up benefiting him. Although he started the film getting into a bar brawl with haughty Starfleet officers, Kirk finally puts his nasty hand-to-hand combat skills to good use.

'Star Trek' Shows the Origin of Kirk’s Friendship With Spock

One of the most interesting revisions that 2009’s Star Trek makes to the core mythology of the franchise is positioning Kirk and Spock as rivals. Although the two eventually grow into close friends throughout the original series , Spock’s insistence on sticking to procedures initially rubs Kirk the wrong way. The ending of Star Trek teases the eventual bond that will develop between Kirk and Spock, as they are forced to work together in order to sneak aboard the Narada . Pine is more cheerful in his interactions, indicating that Kirk has taken Spock Prime’s words about their respective destinies to heart. As unlikely as it seems to him initially, he’s grown to accept the idea that he and Spock could be friends.

Although he makes a few jokes at his new ally’s expense, Pine shows that Kirk has come to acknowledge Spock’s feelings . Kirk has been so infuriated with Spock’s attitude that he has overlooked the fact that Vulcan has been destroyed; Spock lost much of his family and cultural heritage. Kirk is well-aware that Spock is half-human , and that Earth is the only planet he has left to call home. There’s a sensitivity to how Pine characterizes Kirk’s attitude; he recognizes the pain that Spock feels upon losing a parent, as it’s one that he knows all-too well.

Kirk Fulfills His Father’s Legacy at the End of 'Star Trek'

Star Trek begins with a harrowing opening sequence featuring Chris Hemsworth as Kirk’s father, George , who sacrifices himself in order to save the crew of the Kelvin from a Romulan attack. Pine gives Kirk the chance to mirror his father’s heroic action , as he goes into the mission with an acknowledgment that he could easily perish. Although the Romulans were responsible for his father’s death, Pine doesn’t turn Kirk into a vengeful character; rather, his heroic endeavors indicate that Kirk has learned to take pride in his family name.

2009’s Star Trek was a surprise hit at the box office , and spawned two direct sequels that faced Kirk off against even more ruthless villains . Pine turned Kirk into an empathetic hero whose vulnerability was an attribute; it was in Star Trek ’s finest hours that he made the steady transition into the hero fans knew he would become.

Star Trek is available to stream on Paramount+ in the U.S.

Watch on Paramount+

• May 23, 2024 | ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Continues Climbing The Streaming Top 10 Chart
• May 23, 2024 | Production On ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Season 3 Has Wrapped(ish)
• May 23, 2024 | Recap/Review: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Finds The Right Balance In “Lagrange Point”
• May 22, 2024 | ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Showrunner Terry Matalas Jumps To Marvel As Showrunner For New Vision Series
• May 22, 2024 | ‘Star Trek: Prodigy’ Producers Urge Fans To Be Patient Waiting For Season 2 On Netflix

X-Men Producer Simon Kinberg Reportedly In Talks To Oversee Star Trek Feature Films

| May 21, 2024 | By: Anthony Pascale 143 comments so far

There is big news coming from Hollywood, with a potential new producer shepherding the future of the Star Trek franchise on the big screen.

The start of the Kinberg Trek era?

This morning, The Hollywood Reporter is confirming an initial report from Puck that Paramount is in talks with British-born filmmaker Simon Kinberg to produce the next Star Trek feature film, as well as becoming the “steward” of the film franchise moving forward. Kinberg is best known for writing and/or producing several films in the X-Men franchise, starting with 2006’s X-Men: The Last Stand , and also directing 2019’s Dark Phoenix . He has primarily worked on genre films, including writing the 2008 movie Jumper . Kinberg produced the first two Deadpool movies and 2015’s The Martian , which garnered him a Best Picture Oscar nomination. Kinberg has also acted as executive producer on a number of television projects, including two X-Men shows ( The Gifted and Legion ), Star Wars Rebels , the Paramount+ Twilight Zone reboot, and this year’s Apple TV+ series Sugar .

Kinberg’s first Trek project would be the previously announced “ Untitled Star Trek Origin Story ” which Paramount recently confirmed as part of its 2025/2026 slate. Earlier this year, Paramount and producer J.J. Abrams had tapped Andor ‘s Toby Haynes to direct, based on a script from Seth Grahame-Smith ( The Lego Batman Movie ).

This would be Kinberg’s first step into taking a larger role in the Trek film franchise. According to Puck, “Paramount sees Kinberg as a franchise shepherd à la Alex Kurtzman for Trek TV projects, even though J.J. Abrams remains as a producer.” The reports indicate that Paramount may be looking to start a new era for the film franchise after almost a decade away from the big screen.

A direct sequel to 2016’s Star Trek Beyond remains in the works, but that film is expected to arrive after Haynes’ prequel, which is expected to have a new cast. The “Star Trek 4” Beyond sequel has been in development for almost a decade, going through multiple permutations, with a new screenwriter brought on in March for a new script, much to the chagrin of star Chris Pine .

Origin movie is about first contact?

The Puck and THR stories differ on Paramount’s release goal for the “Untitled Star Trek Origin Story,” with THR saying the studio hopes to get the film into theaters by next year and Puck reporting they are targeting 2026, the 60th anniversary of the franchise. There are also new details from THR about the Haynes’ origin movie:

The project is said to be set decades before the events of the 2009 movie that was directed J.J. Abrams, likely around modern times. It is said to involve the creation of the Starfleet and humankind’s first contact with alien life.

The creation of Starfleet and the events of humanity’s first contact with alien life, specifically Vulcans, is well established in franchise lore and explored in the 1996 film Star Trek: First Contact as well as the Star Trek: Enterprise television series. Both Puck and THR use the term “reboot” as well. Of course, the three J.J. Abrams-produced films are set in an alternate parallel “Kelvin” universe, which was also portrayed as a reboot of the film franchise. It’s possible that the Haynes’ movie could establish yet another Star Terk canon universe.

Zefram Cochrane greets the Vulcan visitor to Earth in Star Trek: First Contact (Paramount Pictures)

Of course, all of this development around the Star Terk feature films is happening while Paramount Global is in corporate turmoil . A change in management could see a change in strategy when it comes to Paramount franchises. In the short term, all financing is more challenging for Paramount Pictures, with the company laden by debt. Skydance, who have co-produced the recent Star Trek feature films, is still in talks to take over all of Paramount Global. Beyond that, they still have the option to partner with Paramount on the upcoming Star Trek movies, as they have for the last two.

This is a developing story and TrekMovie will provide updates as they arrive.

Find more news and analysis on  upcoming Star Trek feature films .

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So we’ll be up to four Trek universes if you count the Mirror? That’s a lot to keep track of. I guess they’re letting the original universe die of it’s own massive weight and officially say SNW is part of the latest reboot universe?

Four? LOL. There have been MANY more than four. We’ve seen an antimatter universe, a backward-time universe, and a TON of parallel universes–dozens at this point.

Okay, I should have said four main universes, or four heavily featured universes. I apologize.

If SNW is a reboot, then so is Picard since they showed a hologram of the SNW Enterprise in Starfleet HQ.

None of the streaming shows from the current era are reboots.

ENT, the USS Franklin, SNW, DSC, and PIC are all a part of the same tangent timeline created by First Contact. Lots of evidence out there to support it.

Discovery actually showed when the new “Burnham” timeline was created. Her mother appeared to Spock as the Red Angel to get his help to change history by saving Michael from being eaten by a creature when she ran away from home on Vulcan.

I don’t know if I believe that though. And why can’t they just put this new movie im the prime universe or even the Kelvin universe?

I think people are getting hung up on the alien life part. I don’t think it will be new aliens and it will still be the Vulcans that makes first contact as it’s always been. The press release just sounds like it was written to be as general as possible for non fans, that’s all.

It sounds like the movie will take place between First Contact and Enterprise. If so what’s the point of rebooting it?

Stop whining, good lord. This anger over an arbitrary dividing line between “old” or “new” is obnoxious.

Trek fans love to whine. It’s pretty pathetic.

Boooo. Not only has this guy been part of some BAD films, the story sounds boring and has been done. Thank you, next.

He’s been a part of some good ones, too. Is just kicking sand around a knee jerk reaction, or is there an actual point you’d like to make?

The 4 films Kinberg has written or co-written since Days of Future Past have an average Rotten Tomato score of 25% . We can call a spade a spade. A declining studio is nabbing a declining talent for a moribund movie franchise.

Cool story bro

How is that not Enterprise, though? Hopefully it will respect that series’ canon.

They won’t respect it like they haven’t respected most of the old shows canon. SNW might as well just be in another universe now in relation to how badly it aligns TOS and Discovery was so bad they moved it 900 years into the future because it didn’t feel like it was even in the 23rd century. STID couldn’t even get Khan right and sideline the Eugenics war completely. This will probably be as bad as those.

They will just continue to do what they want and just ignore canon.

EXACTLY what I said as I was reading this article. We have seen all this before

I dont see the point in going backwards, although I said that when ENTERPRISE was announced and that show finally ended up being as strong as anything that came before it (IMO), but we can not go back to that time frame again surely.

If they want to go back to this period just give us a 5th season of Enterprise??

It’s still ironic all the crap Enterprise got back in the day and it’s now easily the prequel show the most faithful to Star Trek canon. Discovery and SNW basically only followed canon when it suits them basically (and I really like SNW).

And I agree if you’re going to give us yet ANOTHER prequel no one was asking for them just do something more Enterprise related? That’s something some fans wants to see and been begging for for years now, me included.

And the Romulan War is just sitting there. That’s something fans always wanted (which we know season 5 of Enterprise was leading into) and would be a strong hook to get people interested. Why they don’t go this very obvious direction is beyond me.

The Romulan War would require finesse and imagination to pull off. The humans of the time aren’t allowed to ever see the enemy’s face or know the most important thing about them. How do those battle scenes work, exactly, without being constrained and repetitive.

The Vulcans…might know. Spock sure figured out the connection between the Romulan Commander and Vulcans with suspicious speed. Just because he had pointy ears? Can’t there be more than 2 pointy eared species in the galaxy?

Anyway the point is, it would take some effort to make a series work and to make a movie work, with the backstory that would need to be explained to the general audience, would be even more of a pain. The people running Star Trek now just don’t want to do the work. They want to spew out some lazy crap and expect us to cheer. A Romulan War series could be great, in the hands of competent people.

The whole “Nobody Ever Saw A Romulan” thing could be explained away as Section 31 hiding that Romulans and Vulcans had common ancestry from a young Starfleet that would no doubt be suspicious of non-human species in the aftermath of the Xindi Attack on Earth. The Earth/Vulcan/Andorian and Tellarite proto-Federation was dicey at first and the reveal of the warlike Romulan’s ancestry could certainly have ended the Federation before it even began.

All of this. All.of.this!

I don’t really believe they would’ve ever done that. I’m more than sure as they have done countless times now they would just run around it and then after it’s over sat it has to ‘classified’, they can’t tell the public they know what the Romulans look like for reasons,, everybody nods in agreement, the end.

Also SNW has had two time travel episodes where both Pike and La’an both know what the Romulans look like. Oddly enough neither has run into Starfleet to report this stunning development. I guess due to the Temporal Prime Directive blah blah.

But we agree they don’t want to do the work nor would they. But if someone one day decides they really want to do a Romulan war, see above.

It sounds like it will probably be when Starfleet was first being conceived. It may take place after Zefram Cochrane builds out the first warp engines on a massive scale with the help from the Vulcans and the first ships are now being produced. If so that will still be decades before even that show. Is there a date when Starfleet was officially established? My guess is early 22nd century.

If true, who will remotely care about this outside of hardcore Star Trek fans is beyond me though. This sounds like something I really hate about prequels and just filling into stuff we already know.

Enough with the canon, okay? Virtually the entirety of Trek doesn’t respect canon.

That’s not remotely true and you know it. Most shows bend over backwards to respect canon. Yes stuff obviously gets retcon from time to time or producers are human and make mistakes at times but that’s not the same thing as just ignoring it or not caring about it either.

That’s really insulting to all the writers and producers who painstakingly gone out their way to make these shows as canon as possible for decades now. Watch any scene from Trials and Tribblelations and tell me the people who made it didn’t respect canon.

And the current shows that go out of their way to a crazy level to respect it the most are the actually animated shows LDS and PRO. They have both done an amazing job trying in to canon. I can’t think of anything that either show has gotten anything wrong on.

I will say Picard has also done a pretty good job with it as well. Outside of maybe tiny instances I can’t think of anything that was so flagrantly out of bounds, can you?

The only shows where canon has been a complete mess is with both DIS and SNW. And surprise, surprise both the prequel based shows. 🙄

Which should tell you time and time again that maybe if you can’t simply make a prequel show or movie that’s more consistent with the time period it’s set in then maybe you shouldn’t keep making prequels?

One of the reasons I’m so impressed with Prodigy is just how faithful they have been to canon.

It’s very astounding how much they have adhered to not just Voyager canon but the franchise as a whole. I say that because this is a show made for kids who doesn’t know squat about Star Trek and yet they went out their way to make it almost a weekly lesson about the in and out about Star Trek history and aliens. I actually learned a few new things lol.

They treat that universe with the utmost respect which sadly the bigger and more popular shows like SNW and Discovery failed on IMO.

So I fully agree to say that people don’t respect canon is false. Lots of people do and they do their homework diligently. But as you say some are simply human and mistakes are made. That’s OK, I will always applaud the attempt they are at least trying.

I think prequels are harder to get it right because there is just too much story they have to contened with and while I love TOS it’s just too outdated. I don’t fault anyone from making visual changes and I’m OK with how they did it with SNW for instance while Discovery was just insulting. They didn’t even try. None of it looked like Star Trek, at least not the Star Trek I knew.

But being in the 32nd century it all fits fine now. Why they just didn’t have it take place post Nemesis from the start I’ll never know? But the fact they moved it there actually does tell they ultimately respected canon because they knew the show just didn’t belong in that time period and removed it. They should be applauded for that but it’s not the canon issues I had problems with alone, far from it, but I will digress here. 😊

Agreed. And I wasn’t trying to give Phil a hard time and he knows I sorta like him but that’s just not true. Not in the least. The people who work on these shows and movies, as far back as TNG has always strived to make canon fit but of course there will always be issues making it fit 100% of the time because it’s still just fiction and other factors will always come into play.

Berman got so much slack because fans thought he didn’t care about canon when it came to TOS but looking back on it now there was a very committed effort to make it all fit as much as possible both narratively and visually. Yes some things people questioned or they didn’t do enough of in some cases but as you said there was always the attempt. That was obvious. But yes it’s still subjective but they were always trying. And when you have so many episodes, seasons, movies etc it naturally gets harder and harder.

But the overwhelming majority fits fine. They have retcon many things over the decades but again out of just trying to tell new and interesting stories. A good example of that is what happened with Seven of Nine and the Borg.

They knew Seven’s backstory didn’t line up with when the Federation first originally encountered the Borg but thought her backstory was more important and just came right out and said that. And guess what they never got any flack for it because they were just honest about it and people understand they are just trying to make the best TV show possible.

Then of course later they retcon the Borg again on Enterprise and fans were livid lol. Just a slap in the face to their very existence. But they came out and said yeah we know how it doesn’t really fit but it’s explained in the story how it all fits via First Contact. People watched and realized yeah it works. No one remotely cares about those retcons today because they understood they weren’t just changing it to change it they were just trying to tell new stories but still tried to adhere to it as much as possible.

And yes most of the new shows are actually trying, really trying. And I’ll actually defend Discovery a bit here and will say I don’t think they were ever trying to ignore or disrespect canon. Not at all. I think the problem was, and I will die on this hill, is that Bryan Fuller just wanted to reboot the show completely. Just start anew in his image. But TPTB knew how much crap fans gave the Kelvin movies and wanted to make clear the new show took place in the prime universe. But Fuller probably wanted it in a new universe and the compromise became just reboot the show but still emphasize it was in the prime universe and we saw how well that went down lol

Now solely my theory, I could be wrong. But again you actually said it and ONCE they heard the complaints they did everything they could to make it fit into canon even removing the show completely and put it in another period because the Fuller stuff just didn’t work. It’s still a mess story wise lol but no canon complaints anymore.

Now there are obviously times when it’s obvious people DON’T care about canon at all, ie British Khan in STID, but those are more the exceptions.And again it’s not to say the Kelvin movies didn’t care at all, they cared plenty, but they prioritized what was more important in terms of telling its stories and just by being in another universe. And I think they had a director who got how important it was to the old fans but he always made clear his movies was prioritized to new fans first and we got what we got but they still tried regardless.

But trust me we’ll never see a white Khan again lol.

And it’s also why I knew the Tarantino movie was DOA because it was clear he also didn’t care and despite what people think about Paramount they knew that would’ve been a disaster and why they didn’t persue it even if they could use his name on it.

Star Trek is not a historical period piece so any prequels like dsc and snw do not need to be made to match the visual look of tos from that was made on a shoestring budget for spfx and vfx and had to work with the limitations of the mid to late 60’s which they did not have enough foresight to see that current computer and other tech might evolve way faster and way more advanced within only hand full of decades

as for the 3 examples of the 60’s sets being remade in part for 3 different berman era shows there was limitations again for the first two both in having to match up to existing footage and early cg not being able to handle a digital replacement and even by then in the real world computer tech and other tech had moved into the digital age no longer had transistors and other stuff that analog tech relied on to run with

And the 3rd they had to shoot the with reduced lighting and weird angles cause of how bad the 60’s sets looked with mid 2000’s hd cameras and other production tools so if the 60’s set designs did not hold up with mid 2000’s level hd and lighting then it would never have held up visually with current hd cameras and lighting

No one ever said the prequels had to look exactly like TOS, simply some version of it, that’s all. Discovery completely ignored that direction and why it got the crap it did and sorry but RIGHTLY so.

Why say something is a prequel and say your show exists in the same universe if you just decide to ignore everything in it? Like what’s the point? That’s why I think Fuller never intended it to be a straight prequel and it was just going to be a very loose interpretation of the prime universe basically.

SNW doesn’t actually fit in visually that much either, certainly not the interior of that Enterprise minus the bridge. But at least it looks like a possible updated version of what TOS would look like today if it was made in the 2020s. That’s all most people wanted. What most of us whined about with Discovery. You would be nuts to drag out bare bones sets with the feel of a 60s looking sci fi aesthetic. No one was ever asking for that. Ok maybe somebody was lol, but they were in the vast minority.

And the old TOS sets on TNG, DS9 and ENT looked amazing (and someone told me DS9 just inserted the actors into a lot of the old footage although some sets were created). Only people like us who spend way too much time on this stuff would notice any differences at all. The very fact they went that direction and put in so much work to make it feel so authentic to the original is exactly the proof how much canon meant to them and did in fact respect it.

All that said I have no problem the SNW version of Enterprise has essentially replaced the look of the original in the modern era and why no one cared that Book and Burnham was on the SNW version of the ISS Enterprise this season. Most fans do in fact understand these are just TV shows and that some things can’t just be recreated from 60 years ago.

I’m still astonished they completely recreated the Enterprise D bridge in Picard. These are people who truly value what came before, especially when no one is forcing them to even do it.

“But at least it looks like a possible updated version of what TOS would look like today if it was made in the 2020s. That’s all most people wanted.”

I agree with that; most people don’t want a literal re-use of cardboard sets and 50-year old FX technology. But they want the general aesthetic to be recognizable and respected. The analogy I use is to consider TOS art direction to be a fuzzy low-res photo, and as technology evolves we are simply able to achieve higher resolution and see fuller details not apparent earlier. Same image, just in better focus, that’s what I tell myself.

No, what the shows make the effort is on continuity. Yes, the shows writers have done a great job with continuity over the decades.

Just one example: Back in the good old days of starship flying, it took time to fire up a warp drive. Ye canna violate the laws of physics (yes, you can, Trek does it all the time). Enter the funky party virus from The Naked Time, and it turns out you can, quickly, with a little time travel thrown in for good measure. So, several decades of episodes later, starships (apparently) start up cold, they haven’t been time travelings, and in Picard Season 3, along comes the Titan-A, and what do you know, it takes time to fire up the warp drive again. Becaue we needed the dramatic pause, apparently.

Continuity isn’t sacred, either. If you haven’t caught the last Delta Flyers podcast, McNeil, Wang, and Shimerman spent most of the podcast shreading the continuity in that one episode they were reviewing. They wern’t wrong, and that’s my opinion as someone who adores DS9.

Between respect for the continuity of the Trek universe, and resonable suspension of disbelief, all Trek is very watchable and communicates its message well. So when I see someone heave a digital sigh about more canon violations as though someone was taking a s**t on a crucifix, it’s just a bunch of melodrama. The casual fan doesn’t care at all, and for the serious fan, that’s just spending way too much time examining the brushstrokes instead of enjoying the painting.

Ok I get your point now and fair enough. But I still think for the most part the people making the shows cares or always try as much as possible. Or at least when people whine a lot about it lol. But of course there will be changes here and there because it is a 60 year old show and yeah it’s hard to keep everything that consistent.

The Klingons are the best example. They were obviously changed in the movies from what they looked like in TOS. I’m sure some people had an issue with it originally but people got used to the idea and that became their basic look and basically followed it when the new shows started. Yeah there are minor differences here and there but no one but hardcore fans noticed or cared but the look stayed consistent for decades.

And then came Discovery lol. However you feel about them personally the fact is they just felt so inherently different from anything we seen before and it bothered a lot of people. It was so bad they not only went back to the basic look of them in the later shows Discovery seems like it is scared to even show them again lol. So obviously they cared or they could’ve just doubled down on it. They didn’t.

But as I said on this thread my belief is Fuller just wanted to reboot the show in general. But same time if you say said show takes place in the same universe and time period of other said shows, in this case the show that started it all it should have SOME resemblance to that show. Discovery felt like it belonged in another time period and frankly universe. So why have it there then?

And I think what bothers people is when you tell them it’s all supposed to be the SAME canon when people have freaking eyes. Stop treating your audience like idiots. Just tell them why something was changed or just highlight it in the story and most people will get off your back about it. But when you present British Khan in your movie and LITERALLY pretend it’s supposed to be the same Khan we saw in Space Seed then you just insulted your audience and you lost them at the same time. Same with the Gorn in SNW. They want to pretend it’s the same ones from Arena. Why keep doing this?

That’s when people get upset about it. But most fans are actually reasonable. They understand things get changed for multiple reasons and OK with that. But don’t treat them like they are in the third grade either.

But again my argument is still the same as it’s always been. If you don’t want to follow 60 year old canon, F-I-N-E, then just put it in another universe or make clear it’s a reboot and do whatever you want. I and others have said this a hundred times now. Yes Trek is old and TOS is waaay outdated, so maybe it’s time to just redo it from top to bottom and start anew.

But no one wants to do that either so here we are. But as said maybe it’s just a mandate from the studio itself and the fear will stop caring about it. If so give your fanbase a little more credit. If you can still watch a show that jumped a thousand years into the future literally just to avoid canon I think people are OK with just saying other new stuff just exists in a different universe completely.

If someone were to film a new movie set during the civil war, the “canon” would be that Northern troops wore blue uniforms and Southern troops wore gray uniforms. A filmmaker might complain that being restrained by those blue and gray precedents would irreparably limit his ability to tell new, exciting stories, but I personally think such a claim would be ridiculous. Still, if he felt it essential to his creative integrity, he could disregard the fusty old looks and dress Grant’s and Lee’s armies in pink and chartreuse respectively. But then the film would definitely be considered an alternate history, wouldn’t it?

Isn’t it thus with the way Klingons look, and other Trek details?

The difference being the Civil War was real. It’s history so we’re just following facts or real events and so you would literally be altering history based on your premise.

Star Trek and Klingons are fictional so basically Klingons are whatever a writer says they are.And that can change with every production. And the fact is they DID change from the original show into the movies.

The difference was Klingons were only in a handful of episodes in TOS so it wasn’t that big of a deal. And Roddenberry always saw them as more exotic just didn’t have the budget to do more with them on the show. I imagine that was for most of the aliens.

But from the movies on Klingons stayed basically the same design for 30+ years and that design carried into literally over a hundred episodes and movies and two main Klingon characters Worf and B”Elanna carried it through on various shows and now iconic characters.

Imagine making the Vulcans blue with pink hair and Ferengi type ears now and that’s how Spock should look who is probably the most iconic character in the franchise and that’s what we’re talking about.

So that makes it trickier. If you change the basic alien design that means those very old characters would in theory have to change too and part of the problem.

So I get your point obviously but really goes to Trek being a very old property that has followed the same continuity for decades now. The fact it has never been rebooted like other properties after a certain period is why it’s hard to change anything.

Comic book stories are much older than Trek but they change up things every decade. That’s why there are so many versions of Superman even if the character looks and stays inherently the same. Those fans don’t have the same issue and expect changes eventually.

If there was multiple versions of Star Trek after 60 years none of it would probably be a big deal today.

But they have basically kept Star Trek through one direction, a few altered variations but still on the same track. And why it’s hard to do anything too drastically different now. Discovery learned that the hard way lol.

I can’t believe that some people still believe that Klingons are fictional.

Haha, this made me laugh.

And yes I listened to that Delta Flyers episode. They were talking about The Siege, the third episode and last episode of the three part series in season 2. And yeah I fully agreed with them as well and DS9 is my favorite show. It was funny how Shimerman almost sounded downright offended about it lol.

And look I obviously don’t pretend I don’t have my hang ups about canon and continuity issues but I don’t let them take away from my enjoyment of the show or movie IF I like them. I have said many times I have an issue with how SNW treats its canon or continuity at times but I don’t let that get in the way of how I rate the show overall. And I just tell myself it’s just in another timeline from TOS which it basically is now after last season.

But why they don’t just say it’s another timeline and save themselves the headache from the start I will never know. Do they think people will stop watching it?

What is “canon,” but merely continuity codified?

Don’t count on them respecting canon. They don’t care. They don’t care about the shows canon except what they can steal and claim as their own. I know this is harsh and many others may not agree, but it’s what I have seen so far in post Nemesis movies and shows.

Gene did not care about canon even back during tos and definitely not when developing tng during tos and later tng he told writers to ignore canon if it got in the way of the story you want to tell and while developing tng gene decanonized a bunch of tos cause either it would not work with the story he wanted to tell with tng or cause he no longer viewed stuff in the same way as he did back during tos

Roddenberry very much cared about canon when making TNG. I wish people stopped this talking point. He simply wanted to update the universe a bit since it was 20 years later and not rely on TOS to carry the show but to tell new stories.

But not a single event or character from TOS was ever directly contradicted on TNG. I remember asking you to give me three examples on another thread and you couldn’t name one specific.

And oddly enough he avoided giving Spock an adopted sister out of nowhere nor pretended a Khan descendant actually served on the Enterprise either. Everything that happened to those characters and ship never changed.

Roddenberry telling people to ignore canon if a good story came out of it has been happening on every show since TNG. They just call them retcons. 😉

But if Roddenberry didn’t care about canon at all he could’ve just said TNG takes place in a different universe or timeline and not care about it at all, correct ? I think a lot of TOS fans probably would’ve preferred it at the time lol. The very fact he didn’t do that or frankly ANYONE has done that yet (minutes the Kelvin movies) seems to suggest they do in fact care about canon.

Or why keep attaching all your stories to it?

non of the new shows breaks canon Most haters and gatekeepers of new shows that get to bogged down by the minutia constantly mix continuity up with canon visual stuff and the minutia of details are continuity which is where retcon term is connected to when updating or modifying continuity not canon and canon is the foundation the everything is built look at canon as the foundation of a house sits on and continuity is the house and when retcons happen it is the same as remodeling and additions to the house so the new shows are still part of the same prime universe aka the foundation but the new shows but are responsible for updates/additions and remodeling of the continuity of minutia that flesh out the prime universe

NuTrek has broken canon many times over. How is meeting the Gorn multiple times by the same ship and characters over five years before they actually met them in Arena is not breaking canon?

How does Chapel know who T’Pring is before even knowing she exists in Amonk Time not breaking canon?

How is a Klingon War even happening on Discovery when Kirk said in TOS they only had skirmishes with them prior not breaking canon?

How is Starfleet officially working directly with Section 31 when both Enterprise and DS9 said they were a complete secret in the Federation not breaking canon?

How does Discovery having some mushroom drive that can zip them anywhere in the galaxy when no other ship had this technology a hundred years later not breaking canon?

How is Spock and Chapel having a relationship on SNW when in TOS Spock never even had feelings for her not breaking canon?

How come Burnham was a mutineer when Spock literally said in TOS Starfleet never had a mutineer up to that time not breaking canon?

Why does Chapel not have her fiance yet when in TOS the reason she even joined the Enterprise was to find him after he went missing not breaking canon?

And canon is both what is said onscreen and what is shown onscreen. I understand some things just become out of date and so you make changes. I don’t think anyone is against that. But these shows have gone far beyond that in how they present certain events and characters. If you just want to ignore prior history and interactions then put them in another universe. Problem solved.

And can you please add periods to your sentences. That was very hard to read.

All that is continuity not canon

Ok I misunderstood you. My apologies. I always thought canon was both what you saw onscreen and basic continuity. I was obviously wrong.

But that said there are still lots of changes visually as I pointed out with Discovery. It didn’t even look like it belonged in the same universe and why I don’t care about NuTrek much.

LOL yeah I think there is some confusion too. I know people here are mostly discussing visual canon but I also think in terms of story continuity that’s a bigger issue too obviously.

But yeah if I’m wrong I learned something today as well.

Well I think the Discovery Klingons beg to differ lol

Look here is the thing. I don’t disagree with you that much. We’re not that far off because as I said I think the new people running it DOES care about canon and where I disagree with others here who says they don’t.

It’s literally why they put the Kelvin movies in another timeline or universe because that actually SHOWS you care about canon by respecting what came before and just doing your own thing. That’s why people who kept insisting they were ‘overwriting’ the prime universe were plain wrong. The only reason they went that direction was to tell people the universe WASN’T being changed. It’s exactly why they didn’t just treat it like a prequel and just did what they wanted; which they could’ve done.

You’ve already heard my peace over Discovery. But Picard, Lower Decks and Prodigy have all tried to adhere to canon as much as much as possible. LDS on an insane level lol. But of course it’s easier when it’s animated and you don’t have to worry about building things from the ground up.

So we don’t really disagree that much. But people will see it differently. For some if you change ANYTHING it’s a slap in the face to everything holy. But most won’t be bothered as long as you give it SOME explanation like the Klingons for example. When you do something like that and give it zero explanations for a species that is so iconic even non fans knows them then you’re going to ruffle some feathers.

But once again the fact they changed them to their traditional look proves they in fact do care and wants to get it right.

Discovery just went too far off the reservation for some. But as I said if they just came out and said ‘yeah we’re rebooting the show and it looks different because it’s supposed to look different’ then most people would’ve accepted that. Maybe many would’ve balked at first but most would’ve came around. But they constantly treat fans like they are in elementary school and tell them their eyes are deceiving them and it’s really supposed to be the same as you always saw .. just different.

This is where you really start to insult fans instead of treating them like adults.

In two years it’ll be 10 years since the release of Star Trek Beyond, which will be the same span of time between the cancellation of Star Trek The Original Series in 1969 and the release of Star Trek The Motion Picture in 1979.

Those reboot movies were a failed experiment.

That was mostly their fault. How you run something with at least decent potential so fast into the ground is, sorry, beyond me.

They bungled it so badly after a pretty strong start. I bet Bob Orci is laughing manically somewhere for the last eight years now.

Probably what they are aiming for Beyond-ST4 now, the same time difference between end of TOS-TMP.

The question is, do they go for TMP style grey pyjamas or TWOK style military Santa uniforms?

They made three of them. That is not really a failure.

I think he just means turning Star Trek into a big tent pole franchise like Mission Impossible or Transformers. That’s ultimately the experiment that failed regardless how people feel about the movies themselves.

They basically spent the same as those franchises and never made anywhere close to what those made. And probably why they been stuck in limbo ever since.

The Transformer and MI movie have both stumbled lately but they are still going steam ahead with making them. There has been a total of six movies made between them since 2016 and zero Star Trek movies made.

That says a lot.

ST movies still don’t have a big enough worldwide appeal at the box office.

Obviously I’m not the one you need to tell that to lol.

I said it as far back as 2013 that it was obvious these movies were not going to be the Marvel size hits they expected and it was time to make the third film both a smaller budget and more intimate film. And the cast were already contacted so the salaries weren’t going to be out of control.

I kept saying based on how STID performed the next one would probably do even less, not more because it was obvious the domestic BO had slowed down and while internationally it did better it was mostly just thanks to China and that was still a very small bump box office wise in a HIGHLY unpredictable market. So they should scale back at least a little. Nothing too drastic but around $140 million or so.

Instead they did the opposite of that and made another jumbo size movie with a nearly $200 million and it blew up in their face.

There used to be one guy here suggesting to make yet ANOTHER $200 million movie which was even more absurd and just tells you people don’t understand BO like they think they do. These movies never should’ve been more than $150 million because none of them, NONE, made any real profit in the theaters.

And if Beyond was made for $140 million the movie would’ve made a profit and we probably would’ve had another one long ago.

And now even that is probably too much when you see bigger IPs struggling to make the money they once did. I don’t think the next movie will do anything more than $300-350 million tops. And that may be too generous.

I mean lets be honest, Trek was never gonna make a billion dollar box office. That desire from the producers was short-sighted and wrong. From the beginning they needed to understand this. Trek has always been a niche franchise when compared with other bigger franchises and tends to be a bit more smarter than stuff they do with Michael Bay’s Transformers films or Cruise’s Mission Impossible. They overestimated the box office potential of Trek and it cost them in the end.

I understand every product is supposed to make as much money as possible in a capitalist society but most products do in fact have a limit of some kind.

Star Trek has always been profitable but it rarely exceeded over a certain amount of money and a much lower threshold. They did actually push the reboot movies into more money than they ever made but at what cost? We got three big budget glossy movies I probably watched all of them maybe twice at most. But we also only got three movies in the last fifteen years and counting because they over spent on them and now too afraid to make anymore because they never made the money as hoped. They made them in seven years which is OK but we have waited even longer for the next one that still hasn’t arrived.

Compare that to the TOS movie era that gave us six movies in twelve years or the TNG movie era that gave us four movies in eight years. We basically had ten Trek movies for over twenty years in their run. That’s very impressive.

Now it’s dried up like the Mohave desert. Big flashy but shallow over budget movies isn’t worth it if it means it kills off the franchise for what can literally be over a decade the minute one of them fails spectacularly as the last one did.

They failed because they were too busy trying to turn it into Star Wars for teenagers instead of trying to make a halfway coherent story with thoughtful Trek messages.

When all your stories starts with angry villains who just wants to destroy planets and your main characters are running or jumping off things every twenty minutes you’re really just trying to make bloated action movies with Star Trek in the title basically and very little else.

At some point the fans got bored and moved on.

“Star Wars for teenagers”… Star wars already is for teenagers

Ha great point!

And why it’s so much more popular than Star Trek sadly.

I still remember watching First Contact in the theaters on opening night in 1996. When that Vulcan stepped out of the ship and took his hood off, revealing his Vulcan-ness while Goldsmith’s score swelled, I was profoundly affected. Yeah, it was a cheap writing device, but it got me. As a life long Star Trek fan, it just hit me right in the feels. For the first alien species humans meet to be the Vulcans made a whole lot of sense, even if it was a little cheesey. And the fact it helped to shepherd in a new era of humanity along with the inventor of warp drive was really the beginning of Star Trek.

Now there is a new Star Trek movie coming out that will show “humankind’s first contact with alien life” seems it will retcon or totally dismiss that monumental scene. Bummer. I am glad I still have the Blu Ray.

I wouldn’t read too much into the marking copy. Those guys don’t know anything about Star Trek. They are just given a brief summary of the idea and get all the details wrong (at best).

To me it sounds like this “origin” story will cover the years post-First Contact leading up to ENT season 1. Going from actual first contact with the Vulcans to humanity’s first “dealings” with alien life and the creation of Starfleet (which already existed in ENT season 1, though it was pre-Federation Starfleet).

That was always my favorite unexplored idea from ENT – that season 1 would have originally been entirely on Earth and about the creation of the first starship/starship crew/the idea of what a Starfleet ship and mission should be, and that they ship wouldn’t launch until the season 1 finale (or thereabouts). I thought that was an intriguing idea, until the suits deep-sixed it in favor of getting into space in episode 1 and instead just giving us another TNG clone with just antiquated-sounding technology but with most of the setting being largely like any later-set series. A missed opportunity.

Yeah, you are probably right. That was my knee-jerk reaction. In the article, they refer to “the Starfleet.” It seems weird to put the “the” in front of Starfleet, so it shows their ignorance about the franchise.

The Inglorious Treksperts have been saying for a year now that the next Star Trek movie will be about the Romulan Wars and other pre-UFP stuff. This seems to track with that.

I wonder if they will have Zephram Cochrane as a main character.

This sounds as exciting as a new Star Trek series set in a Starfleet shipyard on lunch break.

well it is called “STAR TREK” after all….

Yeah. Do you remember the 1st pr announcement on st I’d? It speaks of the villain “”detonating the fleet”. Still waiting on that …

I was envisioning some cheap dodge, like an alien blob lands on earth and wreaks havoc years before first contact with Vulcans. If the alien isn;t intelligent or from a civilization, mayyyybeee they can get away with it but I don’t want that and anyway what does that have to do with founding Starfleet, which the Vulcans must have been involved in.

Star Terk aye?

i’ll believe it when i’m sitting in the theater and the sony logo pops up…

and they throw the word reboot out so much it’s literally lost it’s meaning…

have they ever had anyone in charge of the movie side of the franchise? it’s been like 50 years of “hey you take a shot at this”…

and this guy’s list of movies is not exactly screaming wow… with so many talented directors or producers who love trek they go with a guy who made the worst x men movies? his credits are a lot of big budget (a few good some bad) mostly unremarkable movies.

Sony deal is dead so is the Apollo deal and so is the wb/discovery deal which for those 3 I can say that is a good thing especially the Apollo deal nothing good would come out of them getting it and if wb got it would be the end of trek as it has been as zaslov would either choose to do a full reboot and Start fresh then after a couple new movies and shows he would then reboot it again in a different way or he would just lock the franchise away and take a tax write off and now the skydance deal is on hold for the time being so paramount and cbsViacom are going it alone

I think the closest Trek got to having anyone in charge of the movie side was Harve Bennett in the 80s. And he was smart, he lowered the budgets of the movies and even got TV people working on them. We need another smart producer like Bennett. I don’t think Kinberg is that guy.

To be fair Harve Bennett didn’t decide to make the movies cheaper, the studio did. And they picked Bennett because he was a was a TV guy and therefore knew how to make movies cheaper and faster.

I still remember a quote he said when he was asked to make TWOK and one of the executives joked about TMP ‘Can you make a movie that’s $30 million dollars cheaper?” and he laughed.

Jesus Christ… Just stop with the prequels and reboots. Continue the story in the Picard era or the Discovery era. Smh

Thank you. Why do they keep making prequels when most fans are asking for the opposite?

Who was asking for a Starfleet origin story???? When has that ever even been a thing lol? They are utterly clueless.

COMPLETELY agree 100%

It doesn’t seem like it will be recognizable Star Trek. Pre-Starfleet sounds really boring to me.

Maybe they’ll make it more interesting by inserting something like a . . . a temporal cold war or something. That would be neat, wouldn’t it?

Don’t love the idea of rebooting a well made universe, does Star Wars do this to tell stories on its timeline? Hope this is all just speculation.

Star Wars continues on. They dont recon CONSTANTLY like Star Trek.

They’ve got the bug too, with Acolyte and (erk don’t blame me for this name) Jedi Prime. It’s a contest to see whose franchise can get screwed up worst fastest.

This is not exciting news….. Boldly going where we’ve gone before.

Star Trek: Days of Future Past. Oddly enough it really does fit.

Pretty much my feeling as well. This could be the first film in the franchise where I wait till it hits the small screen to see it. Time will tell.

So it’s prequel to Enterprise then? That’s something fans have been really begging for and to know how Starfleet started… not. 🙄

Enough with prequels and reboots already. This sounds as exciting as watching Vulcans meditating.

Paramount has been totally clueless with the movies and just throwing random ideas up in the air over and over again.

I’m glad it’s not anymore of the ridiculous and insipid Kelvin movies but even those sound better than this. Maybe whoever ends up buying the studio will actually come up with real ideas what to do with the franchise because this isn’t it

What a get! They’ve ran through every hot name and now they have to settle for the mercenary. Also, what a concept! The future is yesterday! No, not that yesterday. Before that!

Simon Kinberg, you must be joking? Is someone determined to ruin Star Trek

Shari Redstone is secretly the Borg Queen.

There is no way a movie is coming next year lol. The idea feels ludicrous seeing how long it took the Kelvin movies to get made.

It obviously wouldn’t be a summer film since that’s basically a year away now and they don’t even sound like they are in preproduction. It will probably be 2026…or 2027…or maybe 2028. Really who knows because I don’t think really Paramount does either.

The post first contact story just sounds like something most people doesn’t remotely care about. This sounds like something you do as a Paramount+ streaming movie and not some big theatrical film. But it’s probably going to be pretty cheap. I really can’t imagine spending anything over $100 million for this idea that’s only going to attract mostly hardcore fans.

But we’ll see I guess.

And here I was thinking it isn’t meant to be for hardcore fans at all. They want to reboot it and are going to the beginning to do it.

But who cares about the early days of Starfleet except Star Trek fans?

Do you see a mass audience really intrigued with the first warp ship heading into space with brand new characters? And I keep hearing from fans a Star Trek movie only works on a bigger level if you bring in known or legacy characters like Kirk or Picard or forget about it. I don’t personally believe that but I don’t know if this is the right approach either.

I’m actually glad it will finally be a movie with brand new characters finally, but still don’t see it grabbing anyone but older fans.

Now maybe the story itself will be action packed and they will get a big enough name actor to lead it and give it a bigger hook.

But when even STAR TREK FANS sound pretty hon hum on the concept as we’re seeing I don’t think new fans will be anymore enticed by it.

Fans are clamoring for the Romulan Wars but it’s a no-go for the general public. What do you mean, the characters are fighting an enemy and they can’t see their faces. And they’re really like the Vulcans but nobody knows that? When are they going to find out? Never? Why do we have to wait for Kirk and Spock! Aren’t they dead now?

I don’t think the general public cares either way. Honestly it’s a big shrug no matter what they do. Most will just decide depending on how fun the trailer looks. When and where a movie takes place makes no difference to non fans. Ask me do I care when and where Dr. Who takes place? Since I never seen it the answer is the same, I don’t.

I get the idea they may want to start fresh with new characters and build up a new story to get new audiences involved but wasn’t that the entire point with the Kelvin movies? They even moved it to a new universe so new fans don’t have to feel like they needed to know any backstory and start fresh. And with the oldest and most iconic characters in the franchise.

Look how well that turned out.

I don’t envy Paramount. They know they have a very well known IP, but one they been having problems expanding from its admittedly aging fanbase. But they have been trying literally since Enterprise. None of it has worked on a massive level. Yes the Kelvin movies have easily been the most successful but even they gave up on the idea its created anew legions of fans because it hasn’t. They realize that after the merchandising failed after the first film and the hype died after the second one.

So honestly I don’t know what they can do at this point? There are five new Star Trek shows on now, a few really popular. But I dare anyone to tell me if they know someone whose never seen Star Trek before are watching any of them? Based on my own experience anyway the answer is no one is.

At this point, I don’t think another movie is going to suddenly turn things around on that end. They been trying for 20 years now and yet I bet everyone reading this or posting has all been watching it since the 90s the latest.

It’s always been very ironic to me this site was literally created for the Kelvin movies but all this time the overwhelming majority of posters was never new fans to the franchise but just mostly old fans even in its early days when the hype was huge.

It just a microcosm of the fanbase and how loyal and committed old fans always are but always been harder to attract new ones beyond the peripheral.

Next Gen finally hit its pop culture peak midway through season 4 after it had long-since committed to doing what it wanted to do and do it very well. And it had a lot of interesting visual elements to go along with it. I am sorry to sound so old, but the new stuff is largely rehashing the same characters and setups along with the same music and visual language.

The movie franchise needs **imagination** and a commitment to the core premise of humanism & exploration, not a focus on making sure it looks, sounds, and feels like something else that has been successful (which is inarguably the corporate edict with the property along with being JJ & AK’s entire bag: riffing on other people’s original ideas).

That might be what’s going on here. They just think Star Trek should be reset from the beginning and we show the leap from NASA to the Enterprise, or whatever. Enterprise: Good Version .

You are so right. What Star Trek has lost since 2009 is any real human curiosity or people truly trying to understand the unknown. It’s all mostly just trying to take down the next villain.

Discovery season 2 was the perfect example of that. It started as a sense of real exploration and mystery only for it to end up trying to take down the crazy robot who wants to wipe out all life in the galaxy. It’s like both Abrams and Kurtzman can’t pivot to anything else. It’s the same set up nearly every time. I hear Discovery is better this season and there is a sense of wonder and people’s place in the universe.

But based on some of the the reviews I seen anyway once again it has fallen to the same old trap and they are trying to stop the Breen who wants to use some device as a weapon to wipe out their enemies. Why I don’t miss this show.

Why is this always the same tired option they go to? I understand old Trek featured lots of villains trying to take down the Federation too but it wasn’t instilled in every story line either. There was actual stories about just trying to understand other people. Stories about the dangers of technology and science that didn’t always have a villain hiding behind it. Stories about characters having internal conflict but not with induced melodrama and constant crying.

The Star Trek today just misses the boat on so many of these things. I really loved Picard season 3 but it still was just more bad people running around trying to destroy the galaxy. But it at least felt like real adults working through a crisis again and not the emotionally stunted children we gotten in the new shows and movies.

I just miss stories like The Inner Light, City on the Edge of Forever, The Visitor, Twilight, Far Beyond the Stars, Darmok, Similitude, Duet, Timeless, Amonk Time or I Borg.

NuTrek just feels more superficial for some reason even when it tries to go deeper.

Let me just ask one simple question: Does anyone here really think that modern Star Trek can do something like Star Trek The Voyage Home where the plot is basically a search for whales? I think the answer is obvious. (I wish it could)

That’s actually an intriguing question and I also think the answer is no. It’s a shame because it at least showed the films could be a little more dynamic back then.

Now it’s the exact same premise in every movie and the same ridiculous high stakes. It’s gotten so boring and predictable.

Sorry, don’t want to go backwards….boring

My fear is that it’s Starship Troopers without getting the joke.

Star Trek: Dark Phoenix

There is literally no point making it for the cinema few will go see it the franchise is dead theatrically…Kelvin Cast Beyond sequel however would be worth making otherwise keep it on streaming!

Yes but that bombed… hence why still no Kelvin movie today.

It’s very simple, if Beyond at least broke even, we probably would’ve got another years ago instead of the development hell they have turned into.

So they are probably going a much cheaper way now and probably easier to get investors onboard.

I like Kinberg, even though I had problems with the Xmen films The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix. Two tries and he just couldn’t nail the Dark Phoenix story. : (

I really really wish they’d just drop this whole prequel film and go on to just do the ST4 for the Kelvin films. I want to see that cast again. I thought they were great and I enjoyed all 3 Abrams films (despite some qualms with Into Darkness).

My only real guess is it simply comes down to money. The Kelvin cast is now way more expensive to make a movie with and it’s probably too hard to make a lower budget film in general but keep the same level of spectacle as before. Again they obviously keep trying but this was all made clear back in 2018 when they refused to pay Pine and Hemsworth the original pay they were promised when they thought Beyond was going to be a bigger hit

At the time most people thought it was just going to be a small bump in the road and the movie would get back on track.

Six years and about five failed attempts later and look where we are?

The reality is Paramount probably has no faith in this franchise anymore. None. That was made clear back in 2018 and it obviously still very true today. But same time it’s still one of their biggest and well known IPs so they keep trying to do something, ANYTHING with it. And we seen the same pathetic results.

I don’t have any faith this movie will get made either. I mean you have to be nuts to take them at their word these days lol. Many think all of this is just to tell the next buyers they have something in development they never actually plan to make.

But IF this one gets made my guess is because it will probably cost half of what another Kelvin movie would cost with young freah faced actors and a story on a much smaller scale and FX.

I would be shocked if this movie costs anymore than $100 million. It could be even cheaper.

Wow was it that long ago when that movie got cancelled? It sounded like an awful idea anyway and I really like Chris Hemsworth.

But if Paramount really wanted another Star Trek movie they would’ve made one long ago.

I don’t believe this movie will happen either but if it does probably because it will be much cheaper as you said. The studio is in bad shape, making another Star Trek movie is a recipe for disaster if the next one performs as badly as the last one did.

Yeah time flies lol. And I remember people saying at the time this will blow over fast, Chris Hemsworth apparently really really really needed the money so that guy will buckle fast.

Yeah not quite. But as I said it really spoke to a bigger issue, one I don’t think has changed at all and that they no longer had any real faith in this franchise. I don’t think a few million dollars difference is what stopped the movie from happening. It was probably always a big question mark if the movie could really succeed or not.

Again I don’t blame them for having doubts where to go next. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars and years on these movies and when the last one failed as it did it will naturally give you pause.

I just didn’t realize it would be an 8+ year pause lol.

I have to wonder who this new movie is for. I’m finding it hard to believe you can get existing fans excited for this premiss. It’s been done. Why revisit it?

Kinberg ran the X-Men movies into the ground. He sounds like a horrible choice to oversee Trek movies based on that evidence.

However, given the rate at which Trek movies die after being announced, this may not actually be anything to worry about…

Humanity’s first contact with aliens and the establishment of Starfleet? Mmm, sounds familiar. Wait, that’s right, there was the very good and commercially successful movie Star Trek:First Contact that covered a lot of this. Not to mention the underrated TV series Star Trek:Enterprise that explored this, too. Of ALL the stories to be told in the Star Trek universe, why re-tell this one? Will they cover the time between First Contact and Enterprise, maybe? Or, why not something entirely different? Romulan War anybody? With the Daedalus class? That could be early story of Starfleet. Or maybe the Lost Years between the end of TOS and the first motion picture? Just why do they think the well-told first contact story needs a reboot? Why is everything a reboot? How about a new story?

Yes both First Contact and Enterprise covered this ground literally over 20 years ago already. Why do we need to go back to it?

And if you must go backwards for the fifth time why not go to a period fans actually want to see like the Romulan War as you brought up. That’s actually a part of history that matters. And that could be a way to finish Enterprise and show how the Federation was formed. But that makes too much sense I guess.

Bring back some of the Enterprise characters and recast if you have to. As much as I love Scott Bakula I would be OK if they recast Archer if they wanted that character as part of the Romulan war since he’s in his seventies now. Om

But how many people out there has said they wanted a story about how Starfleet formed??? Who has been asking for that in the last twenty years?

The Romulan War would have to be a series and aimed at the core fanbase because the general public would be annoyed and frustrated at a war story where the good guys are never allowed to see the bad guys’ faces or know the most important thing about them. They’d have to remain a cypher thru the whole thing.

Creative writers could make this work but are there any on the Star Trek staff anymore?

That’s true about not being able to see the bad guy’s faces. It could be told from each side’s perspective without either side seeing each other, but that can be a tough sell to the Studio. It’s a difficult way to tell the story.

Ech, hack. However the saving grace is that unlike Star Wars fans, Star Trek fans reward big-screen drivel with financial failure. So bring on the next box office disaster.

When first heard Enterprise was coming out always thought the pilot should be Earth warping around in Phoenix class ships trying to pick up a distress signal from Cochrane only to instead find a Vulcan science ship in distress. The logical Vulcans choose not to save the crew captured by a automated Vegan Tyranny outpost, a race that once destroyed all life on achieving warp drive which disappeared in the last thousand years. Vulcan high command logically chooses not to mount a rescue given the superior technology of the output and that mission could lead to a Tyranny outpost back to destroying all sentient races in the region Earth however feels it is their duty to mount a rescue (it’s the human thing to do) and they go for it with the primitive Bonhomme Richard. An outcast Vulcan science officer who has family on the science vessel chooses to join the mission to study the outcome. My thought is that the rescue would be a success though the Bonhomme Richard would be lost (the humans would use their quickly crippled ship as a decoy for boarding the construct with spacesuits). The Vulcans would find worth in these primitive humans leading to more cooperation and as a thank you for rescuing the science crew the Vulcans would allow humanity to keep the starship (the first Enterprise ring ship). I think this would make an awesome movie and into to Trek.

Please not Kinberg. Please?

Slight tangent, is the Twilight Zone reboot worth checking out? I saw only the first freebie episode and it didn’t do anything for me. Did it get better?

I watched a few episodes and found none of them particularly worthwhile. I gave up after sampling those episodes.

Okay, thanks. That’s a shame. I had high hopes for that one.

I just checked Paramount+ and it looks like they have removed the new Twilight Zone. I’m not sure where else it can be seen.

They wished it into the cornfield.

This is an absolutely ridiculous report.

Ok one thing I don’t really understand. If this movie happens is this just supposed to be a one off thing or will this be a new series of movies and maybe it lead up to when the NX-01 launches although that’s probably too far away..

If it’s just one movie I really just don’t see the point?

I’m more than sure if this one succeeds the plan is to make more of them.

I think right now they are just keeping expectations low for OBVIOUS reasons lol. But Star Trek has always just announced one movie at a time. It’s never been something like Star Wars or Marvel where they announced a trilogy or as a set of movies. It never been big enough to make any long term announcements but the plan is always to make more if the last one succeeded.

And if this isn’t another troll job then they may have some ideas where the story will go in this time period; but yeah that’s probably getting a bit too ambitious for Paramount lol

Yes that makes total sense. And what’s the point of announcing multiple movies when they have trouble making even one movie these days so you’re right it’s smart to just take it one at a time.

I guess I gotten used to all these big comic book and Star Wars announcements

Yeah unfortunately Star Trek is not Star Wars in that way at least. But as we also seen prematurely announcing movies is just a PR disaster when you just constantly cancel them after the fact as what happened with Star Wars and all the Obi Wan and Yoda movies got shelved.

While Star Trek has annoyingly cancelled movies for years Star Wars has actually cancelled more of them overall. They now have three films in development but yeah we’ll see.

I still don’t understand why not wait until you’re 100% sure you are going to make something before you announce it because it would’ve saved us 8 years of frustrations so far lol.

Is it a rite of passage that these writer-producers can only be given the keys to controlling Star Trek after they fail spectacularly at directing a big budget feature film? Paramount executives saw “The Mummy” and “Dark Phoenix” and said, “Perfect, we’ll take them As Is!”

On a more serious note, like Kurtzman, Kinberg has his notable achievements amongst the misses. Star Wars: Rebels ended up being pretty spectacular, as did X-Men: Days of Future Past.. As a producer, his track record is quite decent, as a writer it’s more mixed.

Transformers Prime is easily his best work. Sooo good. Made no sense what happened with Into Darkness; hard to believe same person.

So basically they went from potentially a guy like Tarantino, to Kinberg? That’s like wanting a Ferrari but ended up getting a Volkswagen Beetle. I don’t know if he is the right pick for this. His X-men films don’t inspire me with confidence, although some of his tv shows are better. I also don’t like them throwing around the “reboot” word. Whenever this word is used, huge drastic changes usually come with it. Lets hope if they do this, they at least try to keep the Star Trek heart of it.

The concept for a Star Trek movie is literally the opening monologue to TOS and TNG. Scientists in space exploring and encountering the unknown. Throw in some humanism and run with that concept.

The only movie to actually do that was TMP. And that film was a smash hit at the box office.

And that movie actually made me a fan of the franchise in the first place. It was the first time in my life where I could truly see an exploration of the unknown on the big screen as a spectacle with awesome visuals and it made my imagination go into overdrive.

And no other shows have approached the popularity of TOS and TNG. However, to expand the franchise, they are forced to water down the concept to avoid repeating themselves. STIV didn;t have much space travel, or the Enterprise, but they had the original cast.

ST is becoming Dr. Who

How so? I haven’t been keeping up on Doctor Who, so I am not sure what your comparison is.

Absolutely ridiculous – I am so bloody sick of Star Trek reboots and prequels. I hope this doesn’t happen at all. Oh and Dark Phoenix was terrible, too. Awful, awful news. I bet 99% of the fandom do not want this garbage.

you sound like doomcluck and midnightsludge and the other fandom menace youtubers and other internet hatters and gatekeepers who think they are the majority and try and speek for the fandom when they are a very vocal minority like the maga nutjobs here in the us and these fandom mence gatekeepers and haters do not represent the majority of any fandom

I don’t understand why most of the comments on every post on new trek productions are toxic haters and gatekeepers repeating that same crap the fandom menace YouTubers like doomcluck and midnightsludge and mecharandomidiot and stevefarts89 all spew from their mouths on YouTube for the past 7 years and all of their gatekeeping hate has been lies debunked by real fans that are not blinded by nostalgia and have a open mind and know that things change and evolve and can accept it

Yeah, it’s particularly strange when we have so little information here. This seems like an interesting era in Trek history to explore. It could be good…or not. We’ll find out! It seems like some fans are creating a bad movie in their heads and then getting mad about it.

Many just hate prequels in general and I’m one of them. But yes it could be good and interesting so I’m remaining open minded for now.

And I actually hope the story is back in the 22nd century and helps expands on Enterprise.

But it’s basically a prequel to Enterprise essentially no matter what.

Well said, Tiger2.

I guess for three reasons. A. Most fans just hates it’s another prequel in general while others seem to think it’s another reboot like the Kelvin movies (I don’t think it is personally). But yes most fans want to keep going forward, not all of them but yes most.

Now although I agree with that generally, I am curious on the angle and excited we could finally be going back to the 22nd century. And frankly I’m just happy we will finally get a Trek movie with brand new characters and DOESN’T involve more TOS or TNG characters for once. So I’m staying open minded but yeah would’ve preferred a movie in the 25th century or something with new characters.

B. Others have doubts over the new producer. I’m pretty neutral about it personally. Yeah I didn’t like some of the stuff he’s done but liked other stuff so have to wait and see. However…

C. I think many just doesn’t believe it’s even happening and can you blame them lol. I don’t really think this will amount to much like the last 12 announcements but I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Mate, people like you are why franchises are failing. Why settle for poor, half-arsed output? Plus, blinded by nostalgia? That’s what another bloody prequel would be! Is this really you, Kurtzman? Kinberg? Q forbid fans don’t want endless rehashes and reboots.

We want the prime franchise TO MOVE FORWARD. The 25th Century is there to be explored! New crews, new stories, new everything! It’s not hard to comprehend. Though, you definitely sound like a Paramount plant.

i am not paid by cbsviacom or paramount. i also don’t get nostaligic over anthing that is not under my control or does not have a familiuar connection to me plus my first trek series was enteprise i was still a little kid when it came out and did not know about any other trek shows or films till 2009 when local walmart had the dvd complete series of tng,ds9 and voyager in the clearance section for 20 dollars a series box set and the 4 tng films on dvd in the 5 dollar dvd bin i am more of a general sci-fi fan i am not loyal to just one sc-fi franchise i like star trek ,star wars ,b5,andromeda,modern doctor who,the 3 stargate series ,EUReKA,warehouse13 and modern lost in space i also like both five-0 series and the 2016-2021 macgyver series,ncis los Angelas,ncis new orleans, ncis hawaii , also like most of the scooby doo series and the pokemon anime and gilligan’s island and mchale’s navy and hogan’s heroes and the M*A*S*H tv series and original knight rider i like the pirates of the caribean movies and the fast and furious movies

If we take the logline’s meaning literally, it says NOTHING about space travel.

A possible interpretation would be that the movie will be set entirely on Earth and deal solely with the creation of Starfleet as United Earth’s military and exploration agency, and how humans react to Vulcans settling up on their planet.

It could take place any time between 2063 (First Contact) and 2151 (Enterprise).

It could show how the Vulcans helped Earth dig itself out from the wreckage of World War III. How the United Earth came into existence.

Space travel is not entirely necessary.

It’s, essentially, the exploration of a strange new world and a new civilization from the point of view of the Vulcans. To them, EARTH IS THE ALIEN WORLD!

But what about UESPA?

Screen Rant

Star trek: discovery proves ds9's dominion war still matters 800 years later.

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Star Trek: The Dominion War Timeline, Explained

Imzadi written in betazoid is now possible thanks to star trek: discovery, star trek: discovery's burnham arc is season 5's best tng homage.

WARNING: Contains SPOILERS for Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 7, "Erigah".

• The Breen Imperium's visit to Federation Headquarters in "Erigah" echoes their devastating attack on Earth 800 years ago.
• The Breen still hold weight in Discovery's 32nd century, as they race to secure powerful technology.
• Lt. Tilly and Admiral Vance prepare to defend against the Breen, as history could repeat itself in the ongoing Discovery season.

Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 7, "Erigah" reveals that, 800 years after it ended, the events of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 's Dominion War still matter. In "Erigah", written by M. Raven Metzner and directed by Jon Dudkowski, the Breen Imperium pays a visit to Federation Headquarters to negotiate for the release of Moll (Eve Harlow) and L'ak (Elias Toufexis). First introduced in DS9 , Discovery has updated the Breen considerably, by revealing more about their political structure, and has even shown what a Breen looks like without their helmet .

Star Trek: Discovery has also revealed that the Breen are just as dangerous to the Federation 800 years after they fought against them in the Dominion War . The Breen joined forces with the Dominion in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine season 7, bolstering the war effort against the combined forces of the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire. Allied with the Dominion, the Breen struck several devastating blows against the Federation, and Discovery season 5, episode 7 , "Erigah", reveals that the damage can still be felt 800 years in the future.

The Dominion War was the bloodiest conflict in Star Trek history, and its complicated timeline was filled with shocking twists and turns.

Star Trek: Discovery Shows DS9's Dominion War Still Matters 800 Years Later

"let’s not forget what happened the last time breen entered federation space.".

As Federation Headquarters prepared to welcome the Breen delegation, there were repeated references to the " last time " that the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine villains paid a visit. This refers to the devastating attack launched against the site of Federation Headquarters and Starfleet Academy in 2375 . The Breen attack on Earth in DS9 resulted in heavy civilian casualties, and major structural damage to the Golden Gate Bridge. Despite it being 800 years ago, this attack is at the front of everyone's minds during Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 7.

The Breen's strike against Earth prompted grudging admiration from Klingon General Martok (J.G. Hertzler), who observed that " even my people never attempted that. "

With the attack on the 24th century's Starfleet Academy on her mind, Lt. Sylvia Tilly (Mary Wiseman) takes arms and prepares to leave the USS Discovery to protect her students. Meanwhile, Admiral Charles Vance (Oded Fehr) was prepared to make a last stand against the Breen to protect the USS Discovery's mission. By the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 7, an agreement has been reached between the Breen Imperium and the Federation , just as a fleet of Starfleet ships arrived to defend Federation HQ. Satisfied that they'd averted history from repeating itself, the Discovery crew returned to their hunt for the Progenitors' treasure.

Could The Breen Still Attack The Federation In Star Trek: Discovery Season 5?

Burnham and rayner's vision of the future has merely been delayed..

By the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 7, "Erigah", the Federation is in a race with the Breen Imperium to secure the Progenitors' powerful technology . This means that an attack on Federation Headquarters has only been delayed by handing over Moll to the Imperium. In Discovery season 5, episode 4, "Face the Strange", Captain Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) and Commander Rayner (Callum Keith Rennie) witnessed an alternative future where the Breen Imperium used the Progenitors' technology to obliterate the Federation.

The destruction of the Federation by the Breen is the inciting incident that created the alternate timeline first seen in Star Trek: Short Treks ' "Calypso".

This dark future is still a very real possibility as long as Moll is working alongside the Breen Imperium to secure the Progenitors' technology. Moll believes that it can resurrect L'ak, which means that she's willing to ignore the galactic implications of the Breen getting their hands on the Progenitors' technology. Engaged in a race against time to secure both the secrets of life itself and the safety of the Federation, the USS Discovery could soon find themselves defending Fed HQ from the Breen for a second time in Star Trek: Discovery season 5.

Star Trek: Discovery season 5 streams weekly on Paramount+.

Star Trek: Discovery

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Star Trek: Discovery is an entry in the legendary Sci-Fi franchise, set ten years before the original Star Trek series events. The show centers around Commander Michael Burnham, assigned to the USS Discovery, where the crew attempts to prevent a Klingon war while traveling through the vast reaches of space.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, also known as DS9, is the fourth series in the long-running Sci-Fi franchise, Star Trek. DS9 was created by Rick Berman and Michael Piller, and stars Avery Brooks, René Auberjonois, Terry Farrell, and Cirroc Lofton. This particular series follows a group of individuals in a space station near a planet called Bajor.

• Romulan military personnel
• View history

Commander Sela was a military officer in the Romulan military , and an extremely important figure in the Empire 's covert attempts to destabilize both the Federation and the Klingon Empire . She was the product of a union between Starfleet officer Tasha Yar 's counterpart from an alternate timeline and a Romulan general .

• 1 Events leading to birth
• 2 Early life
• 3 Military career
• 4.1 Appearances
• 4.2 Background information
• 4.3 Apocrypha
• 4.4 External links

Events leading to birth [ ]

In the year 2344 , while in the middle of a battle with four Romulan Warbirds , the USS Enterprise -C traveled through a temporal rift to the year 2366 . This had the effect of creating an alternate timeline , wherein the Federation was at war with the Klingon Empire, and Tasha Yar had not died at Vagra II .

Emerging from the rift, the Enterprise -C encountered its successor, the USS Enterprise -D . Through Guinan , the Enterprise -D crew learned that, in order for the timeline to be restored, the Enterprise -C had to return through the rift, even though doing so would almost certainly mean their deaths. Learning from Guinan that, in the other timeline, she had died a meaningless death, Tasha requested and was granted a transfer to the Enterprise -C, which returned through the rift and resumed the battle with the Romulans. ( TNG : " Yesterday's Enterprise ")

Early life [ ]

Tasha Yar, Sela's mother

While the Enterprise -C was destroyed, several crewmembers survived and were taken prisoner by the Romulans , Tasha among them. After being interrogated , all of the survivors were to be executed , but a Romulan general became enamored with Tasha, and offered to spare the lives of the prisoners if she became his consort, a condition to which Tasha agreed. One year later , she gave birth to a daughter, Sela. When Sela was four years old, Tasha took her and attempted to escape, but sensing that her mother was attempting to take her away from her home and her father, Sela cried out, and Tasha was discovered and subsequently executed. ( TNG : " Redemption II ")

Military career [ ]

Over the next eighteen years , Sela rose through the ranks of the Romulan military, achieving the rank of Commander . In that capacity, she was a major player in plots to disrupt the alliance between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, one of which involved kidnapping Starfleet officer Geordi La Forge , and brainwashing him to kill Klingon governor Vagh . ( TNG : " The Mind's Eye ") She was also involved in lending support to the House of Duras in their attempt to gain control of the Klingon Empire, ferrying them materials and supplies in cloaked Romulan vessels. Sela was foiled, however, when Captain Jean-Luc Picard led Starfleet to the Klingon-Romulan border and instituted a tachyon detection grid , making it impossible for any cloaked ship to cross the border undetected. Data, in command of the USS Sutherland , managed to use the tachyon signature that formed around Sela's ships, and ordering three photon torpedoes , lit up the tachyon field around the three cloaked Romulan Warbirds , causing them to reveal themselves, forcing Sela to withdraw back to Romulan space, causing the House of Duras to lose the civil war . ( TNG : " Redemption ", " Redemption II ")

Sela was encountered again in 2368 , when she masterminded a plot to invade Vulcan , exploiting Ambassador Spock 's underground reunification movement on Romulus . Using three stolen Vulcan ships carrying a Romulan invasion force, she attempted to use Spock to convince the Federation that a peace envoy was en route to Vulcan. Spock refused, however, forcing Sela to use a preprogrammed hologram of Spock as an alternative. She then made the mistake of leaving Spock alone with Picard and Data, the latter having become proficient with Romulan computer systems. When Sela returned to her captives, she was captured instead and was forced to watch as Data foiled her plot by warning the Federation, forcing the cloaked warbird escorting the stolen Vulcan ships to destroy them rather than let them be captured, before the android used a Vulcan nerve pinch on Sela, incapacitating her. ( TNG : " Unification I ", " Unification II ")

Appendices [ ]

Appearances [ ].

• " The Mind's Eye "
• " Redemption "
• " Redemption II "
• " Unification II "

Background information [ ]

Sela was devised and portrayed by Denise Crosby .

In devising the role, Crosby stated, " the part of Sela sort of came about from me sitting around in my house one day thinking about how much fun it was for me to go back and do " Yesterday's Enterprise ", and it was so much fun that I thought what else can I do? I thought it was pretty well established that Lt. Yar and Lt. Castillo on "Yesterday's Enterprise" had something going so perhaps they had a child or Yar was pregnant when she went back into the past to fight her final battle. And I sort of thought it out and it seemed to really make sense, and there were no flaws. "

" So my original intention was that Lt. Yar would have a daughter that was raised by Romulans and would grow up to try to actually be a Romulan. So I brought this up and the producers really liked the idea and they sort of toyed with it for a while. A few months went by and I got a call and they said we like your idea but we just can't make sense of that Lt. Yar got pregnant by Castillo. We'll have it so that Yar was captured, they didn't all die in the battle, the ship was captured and she was taken by a Romulan general. " ( Trek: The Next Generation Crew Book [ page number? • edit ] )

In her first appearance in the episode "The Mind's Eye", Crosby only lent her voice to this character although uncredited. Actress Debra Dilley appeared as the photo double standing in the shadows. She was identified as "Unseen Woman" in the character section of the episode's script , and noted as being one of "several shadowy figures [who] might be A WOMAN, but it's hard to be sure," it is further noted when she speaks, she has "a questioning, authoritative tone in her voice." The only other revelation about the character is her being addressed as "Commander". [1]

In her second appearance, she was identified as "Mysterious Woman" in the character section of the episode's script, and presented much the same way in the script notes, her as "ANOTHER FIGURE sitting in he darkness […] who might be a woman, but we're not sure yet," which further notes, " The Woman in shadow doesn't have to raise her voice in order to command everyone's attention instantly. There is something deadly in her calm voice and assured manner. " In the moments leading up to her reveal, the script notes that "the Mysterious Woman heard from earlier is sitting in a chair with her back to us," and "the Woman turns around in her chair so that her features become apparent for the first time. We're shocked as we see that she's Human… with blonde hair… and that she bears a striking resemblance to the late Tasha Yar." [2]

In " Redemption II ", Cameron served as hand double for Crosby's character. According to the script, her name was pronounced SEE-lah, and it was said " Sela's attitude is crisp, dispassionate… very Romulan. B'Etor is very deferential to Sela… she clearly fears her. " Her personality is further explored after she enters the conference room aboard the Enterprise , where the script notes described that " Sela immediately strides into the room, looking around, pacing like a jungle cat, covering the room as though marking territory. She is lithe, genial, confident -- and definitely going for the upper hand. " The script notes continue, through the continuation of their interaction, that she slowly loses her upper hand to the challenges made by Picard. [3] Her character is further addressed as "Commander", and in fact, she even appears to given orders to the seemingly senior officer, General Movar, on nearly all their interactions.

Though Sela states how Tasha, her mother, died when she was four while trying to escape, Picard is completely unconvinced that her story is true, and insists it won't affect his judgment in any way. Sela's story is supported by Guinan, who retains memories from the alternate timeline shown in " Yesterday's Enterprise ".

Sela has the distinction of being the first blonde Romulan seen in Star Trek , and the only blonde Romulan seen until the Star Trek: Picard episode " Absolute Candor ".

Apocrypha [ ]

Sela returned to plague Captain Jean-Luc Picard and company several more times in the Star Trek novels , notably in Peter David 's books Triangle: Imzadi II , in which she attempted to trick Thomas Riker into releasing a nanovirus that would destroy the entire Klingon population on their homeworld; the plan was thwarted by the intervention of William T. Riker , Worf and Odo . Another notable return was in book five of the Double Helix series Double or Nothing . In the book The Romulan Stratagem , Sela forms an alliance with Data to uncover the truth about a series of disastrous events that cast suspicion on both the Romulans and the Federation. She later appears in Michael Jan Friedman 's TNG relaunch novel Death in Winter , as an agent of the Romulan government formed by the newly ascended Praetor Tal'aura , whose other allies include Tomalak . During the Typhon Pact series, Sela has become the head of the Tal Shiar, mounting various operations to try and steal the technology for the Quantum slipstream drive from the Federation. After her actions result in the destruction of Deep Space 9 and the Federation and the Pact nearly being pushed to war in the novel Raise the Dawn , Sela is arrested by the current Praetor – who notes that Sela's desire to ensure Romulan supremacy have actually put them in more danger than if she had done nothing – and Sela commits suicide rather than allow herself to be handed over to the Federation for trial.

The novelization of Unification gives the name of the Romulan general who fathers Sela as "Meldet", while the novel Vulcan's Heart calls him "Volskiar". The Star Trek: Defiant Annual calls him "Revo".

Sela also appeared, with the rank of Admiral , in the computer game Star Trek: Armada . Further, in the comic book miniseries Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Killing Shadows by Scott Ciencin and Andrew Currie , Sela resurfaces as an exile from Romulus , serving alongside Picard on the planet Nydaris in common cause against a race of ninja-like assassins called the Bodai Shin.

In Star Trek Online , Sela became Proconsul in 2384, but was exiled from Romulus after losing a power struggle with the Tal Shiar . As a result, she survived the Hobus supernova of 2387 that destroyed Romulus and killed many of her political opponents. In 2403, she becomes Praetor, and five years later reforms the Empire into a monarchy, with herself as its Empress. In the game itself, the player encounters Sela in the mission "Cutting the Cord," where the player must fight her personal Scimitar -class warbird, the IRW Leahval . Before the player can destroy it, an Iconian ship arrives from an Iconian gateway and tows her ship to an unknown location. Her role was greatly expanded in the May 2013 Legacy of Romulus expansion pack, where she serves as a secondary villain in the Romulan Republic storyline (the primary antagonist being Colonel Hakeev of the Tal Shiar).

In the October 2014 Delta Rising expansion, Sela is found in an Elachi installation hidden in the Delta Quadrant , and arrested by the Romulan Republic. However, she escapes, and solicits the aid of the player character to find the Iconians; they travel first to Hakeev's abandoned base in the Nopada system, and then to a Dyson sphere in the Andromeda Galaxy , where they encounter the renegade Praetor Taris and discover a massive Iconian invasion fleet. The sphere then shifts to orbit around Iconia itself, and Sela remains behind while the players escape. A series of subspace messages to the player reveal that she is attempting to gather Dominion support against the Iconians.

During the final battle of the Iconian War at Earth , Sela returns with Dominion reinforcements in order to buy time for a time travel mission to ancient Iconia using a Krenim weapon ship . In retaliation for the destruction of Romulus, Sela kills several Iconians as they flee through gateways, causing the Iconians to swear vengeance on the Romulans. This leads to a predestination paradox : Sela, in her desire to avenge the destruction of Romulus, was in fact the reason it occurred.

Sela returns in the mission "Survivor", where the player character hunts her down at the suggestion of Agent Daniels to help search for the alternate timeline version of Admiral T'Nae. Sela agrees, understanding she's effectively under arrest. During their search, they find datapads revealing that her mother was never killed, instead left with the rest of the crew of the Enterprise -C on a prison colony, shaking Sela greatly. Over the course of the mission, Sela learns that Yar always loved Sela and wished she could see her, sadly being unable to as she died of natural causes before the player could arrive. After being put under arrest, Sela asks an unknown Starfleet officer (implied to be Data , as he shows his holoimage of Tasha to her, though his face is not seen) to tell her more about Tasha.

External links [ ]

• Sela at Memory Beta , the wiki for licensed Star Trek works
• Sela at the Star Trek Online Wiki
• Sela at StarTrek.com
• 3 Marlys Burdette