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California Now Podcast

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The California Now Podcast explores the people and places that make California a unique travel experience. Host Soterios Johnson, veteran radio journalist from NPR, shares fascinating insights about his new home state. Opportunities include :45 to :60 interstitials, links on show notes pages and banner impressions on VisitCalifornia.com.

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• 7/1/2021 - Program Ongoing
• 6/30/2027 - Program Ongoing

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• $5,000 - Starting price

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9 Binge-Worthy California Podcasts

Delve into a mysterious crime, learn something new about the state, or simply laugh out loud with these popular California-based podcasts.

July 29, 2022

Disclaimer: California.com is not receiving any type of compensation for reviewing any of the products mentioned in this article.

Podcasts have taken the nation by storm ever since Serial first hit the scene in 2014, steadily becoming a necessity of everyday life—and the audio entertainment trend shows no sign of slowing down. According to a 2022 survey, more than 50 percent of Americans have listened to a podcast, and one in three listen to a podcast at least once a month. 

The growing popularity of podcasts arguably stems from their ability to transform the daily grind and mundane tasks into more bearable and enjoyable experiences. Podcasts also cover a seemingly endless array of topics for any interest. Love sports? There are countless choices. Obsessed with animals? Take your pick. Looking for something more niche, such as the best pens? Yup, there’s a podcast for that. The number of options can easily feel overwhelming, so we’ve waded through and found a few of the best California-based podcasts for both podcast newbies and junkies who want an intriguing option to add to their queue.

Whether you’re seeking some much-needed escapism from your dreaded BART ride into San Francisco or your long Los Angeles evening commute, these nine California podcasts have you covered: Delve into the gritty details of a mysterious crime, learn something new about the Golden State, stay informed on the latest happenings, or simply laugh out loud. Get ready to browse, download, and immerse yourself in the wonderful world of podcasts.

1. YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS

Category : Entertainment Host : Karina Longworth, a prominent film critic based in Los Angeles Average episode time : 90 - 120 minutes Why you should listen : Movie buffs are bound to enjoy one of the most fascinating California-based podcasts .

Featuring some of the greatest secrets in Hollywood, this podcast adheres to both cinephiles and history buffs. What started as a passion project is now a hit,  providing behind-the-scenes glimpses into everything from hidden gems to uncovered secrets and forgotten histories. Karina Longworth’s extensive research will most probably change the way you see Hollywood, as she has the courage to talk about topics you normally would shy away from. This can also be considered a California history podcast as the content is mainly about Hollywood’s first century.

2. California Foodways

Category : Food Host : Lisa Morehouse, an award-winning journalist focusing on food, agriculture, and the people who make both possible Average episode time : 10 minutes Why you should listen : California Foodways delves deep into the richest, most diverse, and most complex state in the nation.

Follow Morehouse as she travels across California , telling the captivating stories of culinary pioneers, chefs, and farmers while exploring the connection between people and food. Listeners can learn how a Vietnamese pop star turned into an Orange County sandwich maven, why Central Valley prisoners are supplying milk to nearly all the prisons in the state system, and what it took for a Madera farmworker to become a mole-making restaurant owner.

3. BAY CURIOUS

Category : Travel Host : Olivia Allen-Price, a KQED journalist and producer. Average episode time : 10 minutes. Why you should listen : Whether you’re a San Francisco Bay Area native or a brand-new resident, this hit podcast answers all of your burning questions about the region and its many quirks.

Ever wondered why the BART escalators always seem to be broken, how Treasure Island was built, where the most mysterious landmarks are located, or what it took to construct the tunnels under San Francisco? Listen to Bay Curious , one of the most informative podcasts in the Bay Area , and you’ll be surprised—and fascinated—by what you learn.

4. THIS WEEK IN TECH

Category : Technology Host : Leo Laporte, a technology expert whose Twit.Tv podcast provides tech news, commentary, how-tos, and information about the latest trends. Average episode time : 2 hours. Why you should listen : This Week in Tech is the No.1-ranked technology podcast—and for good reason.

The flagship podcast of Twit.Tv features fresh perspectives on emerging industry trends from a group of top tech pundits, who participate in roundtable discussions about everything from new tech laws and face-recognition technology to the great folding-phone debate and the latest Apple product release. It’s the perfect podcast for tech junkies.

5. MY FAVORITE MURDER

Cateogry : True crime Hosts : Georgia Hardstark and Karen Kilgariff, stand-up comedians and lifelong fans of true crime stories Average episode time : 75 – 90 minutes Why you should listen : My Favorite Murder is one of the best California podcasts , as true-crime enthusiasts have been growing in numbers as of late.

Since its inception, the true-crime podcast has broken download records and garnered a cult-like following, thanks to the witty and hilarious hosts who tell each other their favorite tales of murder and hear hometown crime stories from friends and fans.  So, if you’re a true-crime enthusiast with a good sense of humor, My Favorite Murder may soon be your next obsession.

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6. TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A.

Category : True crime Host : Neil Strauss, an award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author who found himself in the middle of a murder investigation Average episode time : 30 minutes Why you should listen : It is a captivating combination for those fascinated by the thrills and dramas of life in LA.

This gripping, thrilling California murder podcast dives into the mysterious disappearance of aspiring actress and model Adea Shabani, who vanished without a trace from her Hollywood apartment in 2018. Strauss follows the case as it unfolds, detailing all the twists and turns through first-hand accounts, clips, and evidence—and eventually solving the murder.

7. HOUSING MATTERS

Category : Real Estate, economics, and housing news Hosts : California Association of Realtors Average episode time : 30 - 40 minutes Why you should listen : Astute and up-to-date trends and know-how from the real-estate industry, without having to read a dry magazine or article.

Getting into the real estate industry can be quite an overwhelming challenge for some. In this ever-growing and changing industry it is important to inform and educate yourself, especially if you are looking to settle somewhere in the Golden State but have no idea where to begin. Housing Matters will provide listeners with the latest housing news, valuable information, and knowledge that will help you in your future endeavors. This California real estate podcast is definitely one you should tune in to if the topic is of interest to you.

8. COMEDY BANG BANG

Category : Comedy Host : Scott Aukerman, a Hollywood writer and comedian Average episode time : 90 – 120 minutes Why you should listen : Providing a weekly dose of funny, this podcast will leave you laughing so hard your stomach hurts.

Comedy Bang Bang boasts a unique format that blends celebrity interviews with an open-door policy for drop-in guests—meaning an assortment of oddballs can stop by at any moment to wreak havoc, tell a story, give unsolicited advice, or announce surprising news. Hear from beloved comedians like Zach Galifianakis, Amy Poehler, and Sarah Silverman as you wait for whatever unexpected guest visits next. 

9. ARMCHAIR EXPERT

Category : Comedy Host : Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, award-winning actors and comedians Average episode time : 2 hours Why you should listen : This star-studded podcast is popular for a reason.

Shepard and Padman have vulnerable, honest conversations with renowned writers, musicians, academics, and celebrities — including Amy Schumer, Will Arnett, Elizabeth Banks, and Jim Gaffigan — that reveal the messiness of being human. The real talk that happens on Armchair Expert goes to show that everyone (regardless of status) has stories of struggle, shortcomings, and success. As of July 2021, Armchair Expert will be available exclusively on Spotify, so make sure to tune in!

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35 Best California Podcasts

• National Review's Radio Free California Podcast
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• Sunday Morning Newsmakers
• California Now Podcast
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1. National Review's Radio Free California Podcast

2. The State of California

4. The California Report Magazine

5. Sunday Morning Newsmakers

6. California Now Podcast

7. Unlocking California Politics

8. California Underground

9. Look West: How California is Leading the Nation

10. Capitol Weekly Podcast

11. LA Hispanic Republican Club Podcast

12. State of the Bay

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14. The Boating Hour Podcast

15. California Sun Podcast

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17. Downballot

18. California Foodways

19. California News on Fitness and Health

20. LA Weekly Weekly

21. This Week in California Education | EdSource

22. California State Of Mind

23. PolitiFact California

24. California Planning & Development Report

25. Distilled California

26. Nooner Conversations

27. The California Dream

28. KVPR News Podcast

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105 episodes

The California Now Podcast explores the people and places that make California a unique travel experience. Host Soterios Johnson, veteran radio journalist and former host of NPR’s Morning Edition on WNYC in New York City, has recently moved to California and is using his journalism skills to learn every fascinating thing about his new home state. He interviews travel experts, chefs, local guides and many others on his journey of discovery. For more ideas on California travel, go to www.visitcalifornia.com

California Now Podcast Visit California

• Society & Culture
• 4.0 • 3 Ratings
• MAY 21, 2024

The Beach Boys: Fun, Fun, Fun

On this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson speaks with Mike Love and Al Jardine, founding members of the most California band of all time, The Beach Boys. The two share insights into the band’s legacy and discuss the brand-new documentary, The Beach Boys, streaming on Disney+ beginning May 24th, 2024.   “So much of our music was inspired by California itself,” Love explains during the first segment of the episode. Reflecting on the essence of the California Dream, Love highlights how The Beach Boys’ lighthearted and carefree music resonates across generations and geographic boundaries. “Those songs evoke such good vibrations and such positivity. It’s just miraculous that we’re still able to create that good vibration to this day,” he shares.  Johnson then chats with Jardine, who shares stories about the band’s early days and comments on the group’s continuing appeal more than six decades after they started out. “[It’s] without a doubt the songwriting genius,” Jardine says, adding that the band also owes much of its success to “the wonderful comradery and the family connection.”  Both stars conclude their interviews by taking the California Questionnaire, answering a lightning round of questions about their love for the Golden State.

• MAY 7, 2024

Exploring Tuolumne County

On this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson delves into the wonders of Tuolumne County with insights from three area insiders. First, Johnson chats with Madi Broxham, co-owner of Local Collective, a vibrant shop in downtown Sonora that showcases more than 50 makers from Tuolumne County. Broxham describes her inviting boutique/eatery, and offers recommendations including the Cookies and Confluence, an Oreo-espresso milkshake. Broxham goes on to describe Sonora, a one-stoplight mountain town nestled among green rolling hills and steeped in history. Offering insider tips, she highlights must-see attractions, family-friendly activities, and dining and lodging options in the area.  Next up, Johnson explores Columbia State Historic Park with interpreter Caleb Masquelier. “If you walk into the park now, you're going to see the largest collection of Gold Rush–era buildings in the state of California,” Masquelier explains. The immersive state park experience features a historic stagecoach and staff who wear period-correct attire. Masquelier also discusses the park's educational programs, from captivating gold mining demonstrations to immersive historical tours.   Lastly, Johnson speaks with Elisabeth Barton, co-owner of Echo Adventure Cooperative, which offers socially and environmentally sustainable guided adventures in Yosemite National Park and the Sierra Nevada. Barton highlights the county’s diverse terrain, from its lush valleys to towering peaks: “You go all the way from 1,000 feet of elevation to 10,000 and above.” She goes deep on Echo Adventure Cooperative’s bespoke outdoor experiences, including fly fishing, backpacking, rafting, snowshoeing, and more. Barton passionately discusses their dedication to accessibility through their adaptive tours, specifically designed for individuals seeking accessible activities and community building.

• APR 23, 2024

A Local’s Guide to Orange County

On this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson learns about Orange County’s wide range of travel offerings from three locals. First, Johnson engages with Chris Epting, a seasoned travel writer and historian known for his extensive works on Orange County. Epting sheds light on a few lesser-known attractions, from live oak forests to the county’s only grove of redwoods, each with intriguing histories. Epting also shares insights on local beach culture and the charming towns that dot the coast. “Every beach city here has such a different personality... Each one of them is really worth a visit," he explains. Epting also shares his favorite eateries, as well as a few quirky attractions from the past—including the tale of a fake ski mountain. Next up, Johnson talks with Chelsea Raineri, style and home editor at Orange Coast Magazine and the host of its podcast, The Zest. Raineri discusses Orange County’s standing as a premier shopping and fashion destination, highlighting everything from luxury shopping malls to local boutiques. She raves about South Coast Plaza as a world-renowned shopping destination: “They have more than a dozen West Coast–exclusive boutiques. It's incredible,” she remarks. Raineri also explores alternative shopping experiences, from bargain hunts to vintage finds, and shares her personal favorite shopping spots in the area. Lastly, Johnson chats with Leslie Liao, an up-and-coming stand-up comedian with Orange County roots. Liao shares her unique journey from corporate life to comedy, influenced by her upbringing in an Asian household amid local skater and surfer culture. She recommends comedy show venues and secret pop-ups for catching a show, and expresses her love for performing in her hometown: “I love an O.C. crowd. They are there to laugh and drink and smile, and I couldn't love them more,” she enthuses. Liao wraps up by sharing her go-to restaurants in the area.

• APR 9, 2024

Discovering Lake County

On this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson procures local insights on Lake County with three knowledgeable guests. First, Johnson is joined by Melinda Price, co-owner of Peace & Plenty Farm, one of California’s few saffron farms. In addition to highlighting what makes Lake County ideal for saffron farming, Price tantalizes listeners with descriptions of some of the saffron-infused treats available for purchase—including saffron lemonade, a local favorite. She details the experiences visitors can enjoy on her Kelseyville farm, including a picturesque seasonal lavender field that draws visitors from all over. Price concludes by sharing tips for exploring other great attractions in her community. Next, Johnson speaks with Angela DePalma-Dow, the Water Resources and Invasive Species Coordinator for Lake County, who also writes a column for Lake County News. DePalma-Dow elaborates on the freshwater lake’s ancient origins, noting, “there's been water at this site for about two million years.” She then dives into Clear Lake’s ancient ecosystem, which helps make it a world-class fishing and birdwatching destination. Lastly, Johnson talks with Tammy Lipps, owner of Ripe Choice Farm & Catering in Lakeport. Lipps offers a glimpse into the visitor experience at her six-acre property, which boasts a 1904 farmhouse and an abundance of organic fruit trees and vegetables. Delving into Lake County’s growing wine scene, the chef and farmer shares insights into the region’s wine history: “This was all wine country before Prohibition,” she reflects. Lipps recommends a handful of nearby wineries to visit, including one where visitors can hunt for Lake County diamonds in rich volcanic soil.

• MAR 25, 2024

Ways to Play in California

California offers endless ways to play, and on this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson explores some of the reasons why California is The Ultimate Playground.  First up, Johnson is joined by Andrew Nelson, award-winning writer and editor for National Geographic Traveler. The Here Not There author discusses one of this year’s biggest travel trends, destination dupes, with a focus on where to experience them in California. Nelson explains why the Golden State is such a hot spot for destination dupes from all over the world. “[There are] so many different geographical features, so many different lively and vibrant cities of all sizes,” he says, “it seems only natural that so many of these destinations can be found here.” He shares several alternatives for the Riviera, Tuscany, the Galapagos Islands, and more that can be found in California. A seasoned traveler, Nelson also name-drops a few of his favorite unique travel destinations, from the Bay Area to the desert. Next up, Johnson talks with Jordan Kivelstadt, winemaker and founder of Bohemian Highway Travel Company, a tour operator crafting personalized wine country excursions in Sonoma County and Napa Valley. Kivelstadt sheds light on the historic origin of the company's name and shares some of the experiences guests can expect on his custom-crafted tours. “I’m going to get you out in a vineyard on an ATV with a winemaker hearing about the process, learning why grapes grow here, what the process of harvest is, all the way to the bottle,” he shares. One remote corner of wine country receives special attention on the show: “The Sonoma coastline is spectacular, and we have some of the best creameries in the world,” he enthuses. Beyond wine, Kivelstadt adds his picks on where to eat, stay, and play in Sonoma and Napa. Lastly, Johnson speaks with Martin Cate, owner of Smuggler’s Cove, an acclaimed tiki bar in San Francisco. A driving force behind the resurgence of tiki culture, Cate cites the history of tiki in California dating back to the 1930s. “It was just kind of a wild experiential setting that people weren't used to, and it became a sensation overnight,” he explains. The tiki expert lists several must-visit tiki bars in California and gives a rundown of what to expect inside, from tropical decor to a crash course on what to order. Moreover, the tiki mocktail scene is thriving, and Cate explains how tiki drinks lend themselves to being served without alcohol.

• MAR 12, 2024

Local’s Guide to Marin County

On this episode of the California Now Podcast, host Soterios Johnson heads across the Golden Gate Bridge to talk with three local experts about where to eat, shop, and play in Marin County. First, Johnson talks with Alex Fox, owner of Food & Farm Tours in West Marin. Fox delves into Marin’s history of sustainable and regenerative agriculture, tracing its roots back to the Gold Rush era. “A lot of people don't know Marin County was actually the very first agricultural hub of California,” she explains. Fox then elaborates on the experiences guests can expect on her tours, like shucking oysters, tasting local cheeses, and getting up close and personal with baby cows. Fox also shares her top picks for what to eat and do in the area, including where to find the best water buffalo gelato. Next up, Johnson is joined by Lauren Harwell Godfrey, an award-winning luxury jewelry designer based in Marin County. Her handcrafted, ethically sourced designs draw inspiration from ancient textiles and patterns of the African diaspora, and are highly sought after by collectors. Reflecting on her journey in building her brand, the designer mentions some notable individuals who wear her jewelry. “Kamala Harris actually has worn a lot of my pieces,” she reveals. Lauren also discusses Marin’s vibrant food scene, great local shopping, and her favorite places to spend time outdoors. “It's just a very special place,” she remarks.  Lastly, Johnson talks to John Finger, the CEO of Hog Island Oyster Company. Finger dives into his background as a marine biologist and what motivated him to establish his very own oyster farm in Marin County. He then shares the factors that make Tomales Bay ideal for oyster farming. “It's really about that exchange with the ocean, that nutrient-rich water, good tidal cycle in and out through the bay that really creates a great oyster,” he explains. Finger also recounts eating his crowd-favorite barbecue oysters with celebrity chef Roy Choi and director Jon Favreau on an episode of Netflix’s The Chef Show. Finger also shares a handful of his go-to outdoor activities and neighborhood spots around Marin County.

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Travel to San Diego – Episode 494

Hear about travel to San Diego as the Amateur Traveler talks to Mike from MikesRoadTrip.com about this beautiful city in Southern California.

Mike used to live in San Diego and continues to travel regularly over the years. Mike says, “I think San Diego is one of my favorite big cities in the U.S. For starters, the weather is simply fantastic year-round. There are so many activities that you won’t even begin to scratch the surface during a week-long trip. Of course, there are the famous attractions like SeaWorld, the San Diego Zoo, Seaport Village and Legoland, but there are a lot of other lesser-known sites and attractions such as the Wild Animal Safari Park or Birch Aquarium. ”

For a week-long stay, Mike recommends staying in 3 different locations to experience 3 different aspects of the city: Coronado Island, Downtown, and La Jolla.

On Coronado, Mike recommends an alternative hotel to the famous Hotel del Coronado . He starts a day in Coronado with renting a beach cruiser, a fat-tire bike, for a ride along the beach. Downtown he recommends for the nightlife, while some of his favorite, less crowded beaches are further north in La Jolla and Carlsbad . (see Things to do in North County San Diego )

We talk about museums like the aircraft carrier Midway and the Air & Space Museum, theme parks like Seaworld and Legoland as well as more quirky destinations like the Self Realization Fellowship Hermitage & Meditation Gardens. We talk about beach towns and camping, water sports, and where you can go hot air ballooning over vineyards.

We recommend Mexican food near California’s oldest mission in Old Town as well as dinner spots with great views and or great seafood. Mike also recommends a few spots for live music in the city.

Whether you just want a beach vacation a good margarita or you want to start your Pacific Coast Highway road trip , come enjoy the kind of city people think of when they think of California and the only other city that matches Chris’s wife’s 3 criteria for where she could live.

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mikesroadtrip.com SeaWorld San Diego Zoo Legoland San Diego Safari Park Birch Aquarium 1908 Lodge in Coronado Hotel del Coronado Peohe’s Restaurant – Fresh Seafood Gaslamp Quarter Kettner Exchange Juniper & Ivy Point Loma Seafood Seaport Village Little Italy USS Midway Balboa Park Campland on the Bay San Diego Air & Space Museum Carlsbad Beaches – Visit Carlsbad Pacific Beach, San Diego Old Town San Diego Heritage County Park Leo Carrillo Ranch Historic Park Mt. Helix Park Self Realization Fellowship Hermitage & Meditation Gardens Humphreys Half Moon Inn & Suites Julian California Temecula Valley Winegrowers Association Mission Basilica San Diego de Alcalá Mike on San Diego

@BookportPaula wrote on twitter:

@chris2x love your podcasts and listen when I drive! Would help if all guests spelled their name and you posted somewhere to refer back to

Roslyn wrote about the Great Smoky Mountains episode 245

Hello, Chris! I’m fairly new listener to your Amateur Traveler, and am loving the variety within the episodes! It’s feeding the wanderlust bug that’s slowly been taking over my daydreams. I just listened to the Great Smoky Mountains episode (Episode 345–a REAL archive!) and it took me back to my internship in 2013 as a park ranger intern in the national park! I found myself nodding in full-hearted agreement of some of the things to see in the Smokies, and do remember seeing the name-sake “Smoke” rising off the tops of the mountains. It truly is a surreal experience! Clingmans Dome is definitely THE place to watch the sunrise and sunset if you time it right! (The trick is getting up there when there aren’t clouds–the lowlands can be clear and Clingmans Dome can be socked in. But be sure to have a sweatshirt or jacket regardless–it can get COLD up there depending on what time of year you get there) Something I wanted add for your listeners if they were interested in what else there is to see in the park besides Cades Cove and Clingmans Dome itself, which were mentioned in the podcast. Traveling eastward from those sites, right before entering the town of Cherokee is the Oconaluftee (pronounced Oh-CON-ahl-UHFF-tee) Visitor Center, which includes a Mountain Farm Museum. Before the park was established, the land was privately owned as homesteads, so a number of families had barns, spring houses, cabins, and other wooden structures to accommodate survival in the Smokies before the logging industry took advantage of the virgin timber in the area. In the process of creating the park to let the ecosystem recover from over-harvesting of the trees, residents were forced out and these buildings were destroyed. Because the “eminent domain” card was played and people were still very bitter when US-441 was constructed and opened, Tennessee “transferred ownership…to the federal government, it stipulated that ‘no toll or license fee shall ever be imposed’ to travel the road.” (Source: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/whyfree.htm). And since US-441 bisects the park, admission to the park is free. Camping and backpacking permits are still charged, but that’s different. Somewhere within the process of structure removal, someone realized the historical significance these buildings would have for future generations, and a few of them buildings were rescued and gathered together in one spot. Cades Cove is kind of the same in keeping some of the historical cabins, but not in the consolidated fashion as is what is at the Mountain Farm Museum. In the summer, a vegetable garden and sorghum field is manually run–as long as the resident elk don’t trample and eat it all! Another area of interest is the Cataloochee (pronounced the same way it’s spelled) Valley. It’s about 2.5 hours from Cherokee, because you have to drive out, around, and back into the park to get there. There are some historical buildings here as well, but a big draw for many is the elk. Elk were once a native species in the Appalachians, and were reintroduced in the Cataloochee Valley in 2005. The population has grown since then (and expanded to Cherokee!), and the fall is the heart of the rut season. By then, the bulls have huge racks of antlers, and begin to call to the cows. One word of caution to those hoping to visit: the elk are still wild animals, and especially during the rut, can be especially dangerous. Rangers encourage a 50 yard minimum distance from the animals, and feeding/petting is subject to fines. Keeping a distance keeps the elk safe, too! The less habituated they are to people, the less of a chance of a visitor getting hurt and the elk being relocated or removed entirely. The Great Smoky Mountains are deeply enriched with natural and cultural history…thank you and your podcast for taking me back to those memories! Sincerely, Roslyn

Chris : Amateur traveler episode 494. Today, the Amateur Traveler talks about sun and beaches, killer whales and Legos, as we go to San Diego, California.

Chris : This episode of Amateur Traveler is sponsored by RoamRight , a leading provider of travel insurance . What if you booked and paid for your vacation and then couldn’t travel? With the right travel insurance plan. you could get your money back. RoamRight covers canceled trips, lost luggage , even medical emergencies. Visit RoamRight .com. That’s R-O-A-M-R-I-G-H-T.com for more information.

Welcome to the Amateur Traveler. I’m your host Chris Christensen. Now, let’s talk about San Diego.

I am very pleased to welcome to the show Mike, from Mike’s Road Trip .com who’s come to talk to us about San Diego. Mike, welcome to the show.

Mike : Hey, thanks so much, Chris. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Chris : Yeah, well, it’s nice to have you on the show. Mike and I have known each other I don’t know for how long now. We keep running into each other at travel blogging conferences, but we didn’t this year, I think. So, it’s good to talk to you. You don’t live in San Diego now, but you have in the past.

Mike : That’s correct, yeah. And I’ve visited a lot over the years.

Chris : Okay, and why should someone go to San Diego?

Mike : Well, for me, I think San Diego is one of my favorite big cities in the US. For starters, the weather is just simply fantastic, year-round. There’s just so many activities, that you will not even begin to scratch off the surface during a week-long trip. Of course, there’s the famous attractions like Sea World and the San Diego Zoo and Seaport Village and Lego Land. But there are a lot of other lesser-known sites and attractions, such as the Wild Animal Safari Park or Birch Aquarium.

Chris : I should tell people, this is the second time we’ve done a show on San Diego, but the last one was almost ten years ago, so it seemed like a good time to revisit the city. And as I was telling Mike, San Diego is one of the only other cities that my wife can live because she has three criteria. She has to be near a major city with all the requisite arts and entertainment and such that happens there, it has to be near a beach and it has to have a national league baseball team. We really want to rule out New York City and Florida, San Diego is really about the only other place we could live.

Mike : Yeah, I have to concur. It’s a great city.

Chris : Excellent. So, where would you start someone who is visiting San Diego?

Mike : If you’re going to go to San Diego for a week, I would probably recommend staying in three different locations so that you can really get a flair for the entire city. I might start in the southern part, say Coronado Island, and then maybe move to downtown and then probably end up, say, in La Jolla.

Chris : Okay, interesting.

Mike : Yeah, I think we put people last time in either Heritage Park or someplace up more by hotel circle, which is a little further north of that.

Chris : Now, why those three destinations? Let’s talk about, first of all, Coronado Island.

Mike : Well, I think the first night I would probably stay on Coronado Island, and you could probably do one of two things. You could actually either stay the night on Coronado, or you could stay downtown and take the pedestrian ferry over to Coronado Island rather than staying in the over-rated, famed Hotel Dell. I would recommend staying across the street at, say, the 1908 Lodge . While you’re not right on the beach, it’s just a block away and the accommodations are much nicer at a comparable rate, which also includes a fantastic breakfast.

And then, while on Coronado, I would absolutely rent a beach cruiser for half a day and explore the island. It’s so much fun riding around on the beach and actually through the water. And there are so many places to stop and take in the views of both San Diego Harbor and downtown, as well as the Pacific Ocean.

Chris : Now, you say a beach cruiser.

Mike : Yes.

Chris : I don’t know what we’re doing here, so it’s an ATV?

Mike : No, no, no. A beach cruiser is a type of bike that’s got the big, fat wheels.

Chris : Oh, okay. Got it, all right.

Mike : I would almost go so far as to say that it was invented on Coronado Island because their beach is kind of gradual, so the sand is very packed so it’s very easy to ride on the beach. It’s just a really cool experience.

Chris : Okay, interesting. I have not done this. And you talked about staying on Coronado. The only option that I knew was the Hotel Coronado, the classic hotel. Then you called the Hotel…

Mike : The Hotel Dell, or the Hotel Dell-Coronado, yeah.

Chris : I assumed we were using the local slang, there.

Mike : Yeah, and I think while you’re also on the island, in addition to strolling Main street or the main drag which is also known as Orange Street, there’s a ton of great restaurants there. But one of my favorites on the other side of the island near the San Diego Harbor, and that’s Phoebe’s. And they have some fantastic patio dining, often with live music. And if you go there, you have to get the crab stack appetizer. It is wonderful.

Chris : Okay, excellent. And then you moved us downtown. And downtown has changed I think even in the last 10 years since we did the last episode on San Diego.

Mike : Yeah, the Gas Lamp district in San Diego has really morphed into just one of the best downtowns in the country, not only for wonderful lodging, but at leading brands and boutique inns, but the culinary cluster down there, foodies will absolutely rejoice. The restaurants are spectacular and so, too, is the nightlife. There’s absolutely no shortage of hot bars and clubs to visit.

Chris : Do you have a favorite hot bar or club to visit in downtown?

Mike : I would say Ketner Exchange. It’s got great atmosphere, it’s impeccable service. It’s got a great vibe. It’s kind of a yuppie place where you’ll find a lot of locals. And then Juniper and Ivy, it’s really a hip place with sophisticated atmosphere and the food is so creative that it’s actually difficult to classify.

Chris : And of course, we mentioned my wife’s love for baseball. The baseball stadium has moved downtown, is one of the things that’s changed in terms of downtown. It used to be way off in the suburbs, but there is more going on now in the city, right downtown.

Mike : Yeah, and if you do stay downtown, you don’t really need a car. And the airport is so close to downtown that you can take the trolley system, or of course, you can always use your Uber app.

Chris : Okay, excellent. What else would you recommend we do downtown, in terms of sights?

Mike : I would say one of my favorite places is the Cabrillo National Monument. It’s in Point Loma. It’s a wonderful area that affords amazing views of the city in both directions. There is a National Cemetery there, so you can go there and honor our soldiers. There’s also an area that is very popular among locals, where you can go and view the tide pools. So, that’s kind of a cool area, as well.

And if you’re in that area, I would then highly recommend Point Loma Seafood Company. This is one of the best places for fresh seafood. They’re literally right there in the pier, a few feet from the fishing vessels that come in. And I am, I have to say, kind of a fish and chip connoisseur. The best fish and chips I’ve ever been.

Chris : Now, we’ve mentioned two sites without really talking about the geography. One is Coronado Island, and the other is Point Loma. Those are the two jaws of the harbor, San Diego Bay. So, you just went out to the barrier breakwater for the harbor, basically, to the end of Point Loma.

Mike : That’s true.

Chris : And then Coronado was also where the naval base is. So, as I’m looking over at the harbor, I’m also looking over at aircraft carriers and things like that, as well, depending on who’s on port at a given time.

Mike : Yeah, that’s absolutely true. From the top of the Cabrillo National Monument Area in Point Loma, you are looking down on Coronado Island to the southeast.

Chris : Okay, I’m looking at a map and it’s actually northeast, but okay.

Mike : Oh, there you go.

Chris : Well, at least to the closest part, to the naval air field there.

Mike : Okay, yeah.

Chris : So, the rest of the island is to the southeast.

Mike : Thank you for the geography correction.

Chris : Well, that’s okay. Excellent. Any other sites that you would recommend in that downtown area?

Mike : Yeah, not too far is Seaport Village and that is a wonderful area for people watching, for shopping. One of the coolest things I think is the street performers, some amazing street performers you’ll find down there. I remember one time I was there watching this pogo stick act. They had about five or six of these guys. You know on these pogo sticks you had as a kid?

Chris : Sure, yeah.

Mike : And these were super-charged. They were getting, I must say, 15 feet in the air, doing flips and all kinds of acrobatics. It was spectacular.

However, toward the end of one of the shows at a grand finale, one of the guys was so high in the air and when he came back down, he didn’t quite hit square and he was a little bit of an angle. And I’ll tell you, that guy almost propelled himself right over the sea wall into the water. But an amazing act. There’s all kinds of great talent down there.

Chris : Excellent. The other thing that we talked about in the last episode that I love in that area, that I think was a surprise to me until we were talking to a friend who was living in San Diego, is Little Italy.

Mike : Oh, yeah.

Chris : We were there for the Columbus Day celebration when they bring out the bands and the have the restaurants overflow into the streets. Some nice restaurants there, very casual restaurants, very old school, I think, some of the ones that we’ve been to there. But also, then they also had chalk art, these amazing masterpieces that of course, are going to wash away in the next day or two that people were doing on the streets. I remember there was one that was a chalk art Mona Lisa.

Mike : Oh, very cool. Little Italy is just a fantastic microcosm of downtown, which there’s all these little pockets that have such life down there. It’s a lot of fun.

Chris : Yeah. It’s what, two, three blocks long?

Mike : Yeah, yeah.

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Chris : The one place I haven’t been downtown, and I don’t know if you have, is the USS Midway Museum.

Mike : Yes. Yeah, that’s a fantastic place as well. They have something like 29 restored aircraft, or airplanes, I should say.

Chris : From the different time period that the Midway was in service.

Mike : Correct. Yeah. It’s a wonderful area to get really up and close to a lot of these aircraft. And then they have a lot of military personnel, you can ask questions; a lot of retired naval folks. I’ll tell you one story that was really interesting. When I worked downtown…and I didn’t know this before this, but I worked for a leading yacht dealer right on Harbor Island. And one time, I saw all this commotion going on, and there was one of the aircraft carriers coming into port. And the whole aircraft was surrounded by the sailors in their white uniforms, and they had the band playing and everything else. I didn’t know what the symbolism was, I didn’t know what the reason for this was. And I guess they do this every time…it’s only when the ships are going out and coming back from moor.

Chris : Oh, okay. Oh, I didn’t realize that.

Mike : Yeah, and it was an amazing thing to see. Imagine just thousands of sailors on this ship and they’re all in their dress whites, and they’ve got the band playing. It was really quite an amazing experience.

Chris : Well, that is one thing about San Diego is it does have a huge Navy presence there, Navy and Marines, as well. So, that’s something to be aware of. So, if you’re looking for something…a little piece in to that, the midway museum. And I think the Midway, as I recall, was commissioned obviously after the Battle of Midway. So it was commissioned, I believe, in the late part of World War II and then served right up through Korea and Vietnam, and was involved in the Apollo Space Program, as well, as I recall, for some of the recoveries of the astronauts.

Mike : I believe you’re correct. I didn’t know that about the space missions though. That’s very interesting.

Chris : Well, I could be wrong. I’ll look that up while you move us on to whatever we’re talking about next.

Mike : Well, I think also when you’re down in the downtown area, certainly Balboa Park is worth a visit. The museums, the space museum as you were just mentioning, car museum and then of course, they have the traveling exhibits. So Balboa Park is a great place to visit. And if you’re in to camping , the Mission Bay Campground is really awesome. The views are spectacular, and then of course, there’s a lot of activities. You can rent a sailboat, go jet-skiing, and then downtown as well, or not far from it, is Sea World. And that’s one of the main attractions in San Diego, and certainly a place I would recommend. I’ve been there many times and it’s a great experience.

Chris : Now, there has obviously been some controversy about Sea World. By the way, I was wrong about Apollo. I know the sister ship took place in Apollo, but I don’t see anything that says the Midway did. And it also served for longer than I realized. So, a couple of things there. One is you mentioned the Space Museum, and I don’t know about the Space Museum.

Mike : Yeah, to tell you the truth, I haven’t been there. I just know that it exists within Balboa Park. That’s one of the things I think Balboa is really well-known for, is the various museums that are within the park.

Chris : And the zoo is in the park as well.

Mike : Yeah, there you go. And I know one of the questions you wanted to ask me was what maybe some of the over-rated things that you might find in a guidebook that I think might be a waste of time. I don’t know if this is a good way to segue way to that, but since we mentioned the zoo…I mean, people may throw virtual stones at me for saying this…

Chris : Oh, they will, yes.

Mike : …but I would say the zoo is probably one of the things that you could maybe miss when you visit San Diego, only because there are so many other unique things to do. Yeah, it’s a great zoo, but for me, it’s a zoo similar to others in other big cities. Like I said, I just think there’s a lot of other unique things that you could do if you had a limited time in the city.

Chris : And I might have to disagree with you, in part, at least. I think I would say that it’s one of the best zoos in the US, but if you were going to see wild animals, I think we’re going to talk about a place later on that I would recommend more highly. Is that fair enough?

Mike : Yeah, absolutely.

Chris : And we’ll leave that for…and it’s not Sea World. But now, let’s get back to Sea World. So, obviously, they’ve been having kind of a bad time in terms of some PR things involving killer whales and how are they treating them, and the documentary that came out and such. Are you seeing that impact the park that much, both the tourism, and in terms of what they’re doing in the park in terms of how they’re addressing that controversy?

Mike : I don’t know that I could really speak on that. That would be more for a spokesperson at Sea World to maybe talk about. I don’t know. I’ll tell you, that place, it really draws a crowd, and for good reason. It is a really amazing experience in so many different ways. They have things that are actually completely unrelated to animals. I think for me, because I’m a huge fan of water skiing, they have an amazing water-ski show there, so it’s completely unrelated to animals. So, they have a lot of other attractions.

Chris : Okay, excellent. And then you were heading a little further north then, to Mission Bay, and we’re talking about camping. Tell us a little more about what Mission Bay is. Mission Bay, as I recall, is an artificial bay.

Mike : Yes, and that’s also right there next to Sea World. Sea World encompasses that. There’s a lot of attractions right around there. Of course, you’ve got the beaches and there’s hotels and then as I mentioned, the camping . They have a lot of water sport activities. Frequently, you’ll see water-ski competitions out there. You can rent a little Hobie Cat, which I’ve done. It’s just a lot of fun. And maybe even rent a jet ski and zoom around the lake.

Chris : And when we say Hobie Cat, that one I do know. I’ve been on a Hobie Cat, so we’re talking about a small sailboat. A twin-hull sailboat.

Chris : And they are fun. They are great fun if you’re on with somebody who knows what they’re doing, which I was.

Mike : Yeah, and if you get one with a jib-sail on it, you can really move.

Chris : Absolutely. Now, you mentioned beaches. Since people are throwing stones at you anyway, your favorite beach in San Diego.

Mike : So, I’m a little bit older. I don’t really like the crowds and everything, so I would say one of my favorite beaches in San Diego County is actually farther north in Carlsbad. It’s a very expansive beach. A lot fewer people are there. You can absolutely throw the Frisbee around and what I find fun there, you’ll often see kite-boarders. And that is just a thrill to watch these guys jumping the waves and everything. And for some reason, the kite-boarders seem to gravitate to that area.

Chris : Excellent. Interesting. My co-host for this week of travel, Jen Leo, lives in Carlsbad, so she will love the fact that you gave Carlsbad a nod there. I’m more familiar with Pacific beach, which is a beach town feel to it. Is Carlsbad like that as well?

Mike : No, I wouldn’t say. The younger folks will absolutely gravitate toward Mission Beach and Pacific Beach, and maybe Ocean Beach, which is a little south of those two beaches. La Jolla is also a wonderful beach. There’s just an amazing cluster of beaches as you travel further north.

Chris : Okay, excellent. And before you start saying get off my lawn, what else would we talk about in San Diego? What other highlights are there?

Mike : I’ll tell you. Some of the things that I really like is…the Birch Aquarium is another fantastic destination and it’s right on the water, so the views are great. Old Town, which is a little bit east of downtown.

Chris : Very close to the airport.

Mike : Yeah, not far at all. That’s got a great vibe, very authentic Mexican experience. There’s a haunted hotel, great restaurants, a lot of Mexican music being played, homemade tortillas, so it’s a fun experience.

Chris : Right, and that’s actually just above there, only…walking distance from there is Heritage Park, where they took a lot of the old Victorians and put them in Heritage Park when they needed to move them for freeways and things like that. So, we’ve actually stayed there once when we were…oh, a long time ago. I think it was our pre-baby honeymoon that was going to be to Hawaii, and we looked at the budget and decided San Diego was a lovely place.

Mike : Indeed.

Chris : Excellent.

Mike : I’ve got a couple of other places that people may not be familiar with. This is another one in Carlsbad, actually. Leo Carrillo Ranch historic park. It’s a great place to have a picnic and stroll the historic grounds, maybe even taking pictures of the peacocks. They have a lot of peacocks running around the property. Another interesting place that may not be that familiar with people is Mount Helix, which is east of downtown in La Mesa. Not only is it a nice hike up there, but you can also drive and park. And they have an amphitheater where they have plays and concerts, and as the Christmas Season is coming up, it’s a great place to listen to some Christmas Carols.

Chris : Excellent. Interesting. Now, you worked your way up to Carlsbad. Am I right that Carlsbad is also where Lego Land is?

Mike : That is correct, yeah. There’s another place, I think it’s a little bit south of Carlsbad. It’s called the Self-Revitalization Fellowship Meditation Gardens. It’s a long name, but it’s a beautiful place on this bluff. The views are just spectacular. It’s a really wonderful place to go there and relax and meditate. It’s a place off the beaten path. And then one other place I might mention is Humphreys, and this is on Shelter Island back down toward the Point Loma area. Not only do they have a hotel, they have a great restaurant, but they have a wonderful live music venue and they often get some really well-known acts there. If you have a boat, you can actually boat up to the back side of the lounge area and listen to the music, free of charge.

Chris : Excellent. What’s going to surprise someone the first time they come to San Diego?

Mike : I think that the sheer quantity of things that you can do in this city. There’s just no shortage of fantastic attractions, but also activities. There’s a slew of wonderful gastronomic experiences, great nightlife. I think people will, if they’ve never been to the West Coast or been to San Diego, they’ll just be surprised at how much there is to see and do.

Chris : Well, and you say “haven’t been to the West Coast.” We have the core people that come to San Francisco thinking they’re going to California and yet, their picture is really more Los Angeles or San Diego, and they’re really expecting the beach town, they’re expecting the weather and such. So, it really is what we picture when we picture California, is more of the life in San Diego.

Mike : You’ve hit the nail on the head. You’re absolutely right. It feels like that California town, that California beach town.

Chris : Right. We usually ask what’s the best time of year to go someplace. First of all, is there any bad time of year to go to San Diego?

Mike : You know, there might be a bad time and I would say it might be June. They have something in San Diego called June gloom. And for whatever reason, June often has a lot of overcast weather. So, that might be one month to avoid. The weather in San Diego is pretty temperate. It’s pretty similar year round. It varies about 10 degrees from summer to winter. So in the summer, depending on how far you are inland, temperatures might range from, say. 70 to 80, where in the winter, those same temperatures might be 60 to 70.

Chris : And typically, I’m going to guess that in the summer, the shore is cooler, and in the winter, the inland is cooler.

Mike : Yeah, I think that may be a fair assessment. It’s certainly…as soon as you get inland, too, in the summer months, it can get quite warm: 85, 95 degrees, easily. But as you get coastal, that’ll drop 10, 15 degrees.

Chris : Yep, okay. And what side trips should we see when we’re in San Diego?

Mike : A couple that come to mind would be Julian, which is off of Interstate 8, east of San Diego. It’s a charming little town, very famous for their apple pie. There’s also Temecula, which is northeast of San Diego, a great place for boutique inns. It’s very well-known as being wine country, and there’s also a lot of hot-air ballooning activities.

Chris : Oh, I didn’t know hot-air ballooning. And the wine seems like a relatively new thing to me, Temecula to be a wine region, but I’m definitely hearing more about it now than I used to.

Mike : Yeah, absolutely. You might be right. I’m not sure how long wine has been going on in Temecula, but certainly for the last 15, 20 years, it seems as though it’s been a go-to place for those even from Palm Springs and San Diego to descend on.

Chris : Okay. As we start to wrap this up, your best day, the perfect ideal San Diego day.

Mike : I think one of my favorite days in San Diego might be taking a beach cruiser down Coronado Island, having lunch at one of my favorite restaurants, sailing a Hobie Cat across Mission Bay, throwing a Frisbee along the expansive beach of Carlsbad, and then ending the evening with an authentic meal in Old Town at a Mexican restaurant.

Chris : Excellent. If it ends with a Mexican restaurant, I’m definitely with you. And I was with you the rest of the day, as well. One thing we didn’t say about Old Town: Old Town is also the home for the Mission San Diego, the oldest of the California branch of the Spanish missions in Alta, California. There’s older ones further south around there.

Mike : Well, I did not know that. That’s a great tidbit. I had no idea.

Chris : Isn’t that where the mission is?

Mike : Yes, there is. I didn’t realize it was the oldest.

Chris : Oh, yeah. They’re oldest from South to North. They were built going up the state.

Mike : I see.

Chris : The youngest of them is the Sonoma Mission.

Mike : Okay.

Chris : You’re standing in the prettiest spot in San Diego. Where are you standing and what are you looking at?

Mike : That’s a good question. You know, I had just mentioned that Self-Revitalization Fellowship Meditation Garden, which I believe is in Encinitas or bordering Carlsbad. Oh my gosh, the views there are sensational. To watch the sunset, I don’t think you can find a better spot.

Chris : Excellent. One thing that makes you laugh and say, “Only in San Diego.”

Mike : Only in San Diego will you see a sign on the freeway of a mother holding her three children’s hands running across the freeway.

Chris : That is unusual. Now, you’ve got give us a little more context, but I know what you’re talking about. I’ve seen the sign.

Mike : Yeah, I can only assume that the sign means that there are people crossing the freeway and you need to be aware, and I assume it’s because they’re coming across the border illegally. I don’t know.

Chris : Yeah, the sign that I’m thinking of is just after you get over the border from Tijuana.

Mike : Yeah.

Chris : Yeah, it’s an unusual sign, I grant you that. Well, and we should say that assuming that conditions are good in Tijuana, you’re also very close to the border there, and a number of people there do take the opportunity to take a day trip down to Tijuana, if they’re so inclined. I have done that myself.

Mike : Yeah, absolutely. Some great shopping down there.

Chris : Absolutely. And that’s just in the car waiting to cross the border on the way back as people are bringing things to your car. If you’re looking for a pink Plaster of Paris “Last Supper” with glitter, I’m not sure that there’s a better place to find it.

Mike : Or Chiclets.

Chris : Or Chiclets, that’s true. That’s absolutely true. Finish this sentence: You really know you’re in San Diego when…what?

Mike : When you smell the ocean breeze.

Chris : Okay, and if you had to summarize San Diego in three words, what three words would you use?

Mike : Beautiful, tasty and energetic.

Chris : Energetic. Okay, and why “energetic?” Lots of outdoor sports?

Mike : It’s a city where the weather is so wonderful year-round, that everyone’s outdoors. There’s a lot of energy in the air, and that’s not just during the day. You go down to the Gas Lamp, the restaurant, the bar scene, there’s just a buzz. There’s a lot of energy in San Diego.

Chris : Excellent. Mike, from Mike’s Road Trip , has been our guest. Mike, is there a great post on Mike’s RoadTrip about San Diego that we should point people to?

Mike : Yeah, actually. If you go to Mike’s RoadTrip .com/San-Diego, you will find a whole list of things to do in town. And if you have any questions at all about San Diego, I would love to field them. You can send me an email. I’d be happy to answer them.

Chris : Excellent. Did you want to give your email, or should they re-route it through me?

Mike : If they hit my website, they can go to the contact page and certainly find the email address there.

Chris : Terrific. Mike, so good to talk to you, and thank you for coming and sharing with us your love for San Diego.

Mike : Hey, you as well, Chris. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Chris : In news of the community, only 6 of the 16 slots for that trip in April of 2016 to Cambodia are left. More details, again, on the show notes. Just look at the “Book Travel” tab for information about that.

I heard from Paula through Twitter who said, “@Chris to X. Love your podcast and listen when I drive. It would help if all guests spelled their name and you posted it somewhere to refer back to.” Ah, but I do. There are two different places where you can find it. One is, we always have the show notes at the Amateur Traveler’s site. You can find that by name. For recent shows, it’ll show up on the top page. But also, if you look at the lyrics for any given episode within your player, you should be able to find “Lyrics.” And within there, you’ll find the links for everything we talk about on the show, as well as a description of what we talk about. The community information, like Paula’s tweet, will be in there. So again, lyrics or the show notes at AmateurTraveler.com.

I had an email recently from Roslyn who said she’d just listened to the Great Smoky Mountains episode, that’s episode 345 for those of you keeping score. She says, “It took me back to my internship in 2013 as a Park Ranger intern in the National Park. I found myself nodding in full-hearted agreement of some of the things to see in the Smokies, and do remember seeing the namesake, Smoke, rising off the tops of mountains. It truly is a surreal experience. Clingmans Dome is definitely the place to watch the sunrise and sunset if you time it right. The trick is getting up there when there aren’t clouds. The lowlands can be clear and Clingmans Dome can be socked in. Be sure to have a sweatshirt or jacket regardless, it can get cold up there depending on what time of the year you get there.

Something I wanted to add for your listeners if they’re interested in what there is to see in the park besides caves, cove, and Clingmans Dome itself, which were mentioned in the podcast. Traveling eastward from these sites, right before entering the town of Cherokee is the Oak and Olive Tea Visitor’s Center, which includes a mountain farm museum. Before the park was established, the land was privately owned as homesteads, so a number of families had barns, spring houses, cabins and other wooden structures to accommodate survival in the Smokies before the logging industry took advantage of the virgin timber in the area.

In the process of creating the park to let the ecosystem recover from the over-harvesting of the trees, residents were forced out and these buildings were destroyed because the eminent domain card was played. And people were still very bitter when US 441 was constructed. It opened Tennessee “transferred ownership” to the Federal Government. It stipulated that no toll or license fee shall be imposed to travel the road. And since US 441 bisects the park, admission to the park is free. Camping and backpacking permits are still charged for, but that’s different.” You can check out all of Roslyn’s comments with other things to see in the area, either in the show notes or in the lyrics, as we said.

With that, we’re going to end this episode of Amateur Traveler. Remember our sponsor RoamRight. And also the transcript of this episode is sponsored by JAYWay Travel, experts in Eastern European travel. If you have a comment, send me an email at host at AmateurTraveler.com or leave a comment on those show notes which we mentioned at AmateurTraveler.com. And as always, thanks so much for listening.

Transcription sponsored by  JayWay Travel , specialists in Central & Eastern Europe custom tours.

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by Chris Christensen

+Chris Christensen | @chris2x | facebook

4 Responses to “Travel to San Diego – Episode 494”

I am in San Diego right now for a conference! This episode is perfectly timed and I will take some of your guest’s recommendations. One thing I would add is that San Diego is full of craft breweries and great brew pubs, and I have been enjoying many of the different local beers. If people are interested, http://www.sandiegobrewersguild.org has all the information you could need to find the many breweries. Thanks for the great episode!

thanks for letting the beer drinkers know that great resource

Great episode introducing San Diego! I grew up in lovely Carlsbad, lived near downtown for two years, and started hosting Couchsurfers recently so have been thinking about places to visit. I definitely second the San Diego beer scene as an attraction with excellent local beer to be found in just about every neighborhood! I would also like to note that the mission is not in Old Town, but further northeast in Mission Valley by the football stadium and big malls. One random cool museum in Balboa Park to add is the model train museum – a very detailed, extensive, funky little spot! And a food tip: City Tacos in the North Park neighborhood is delicious and popular.

Mark Carrara

My wife and I were in the San Diego area during this Christmas. We had two days to spend with two of our grandsons, age 5 and 7. Day two we visited the Birch aquarium. The kids had a great time as did grandma and grandpa. We also were impressed by the views from Cabrillo NM. On the first day we did something your guest did not mention. We took Nate Harrison Grade, one of several gravel roads up the side of Palomar Mountain. Suitable for almost any family vehicle. Great views along the way.

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June 7, 2022, 10:22 PM · Discover what’s new and worth visiting around the Golden State this summer on the latest episode of the California Now Podcast, which features yours truly as a special guest.

The California Now Podcast is produced by Visit California and features noteworthy tourist attractions and destinations around the state. Of course, I focused on theme parks in my segment, especially the new stuff this summer.

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The Government Takes On Ticketmaster

Explaining a case that could reshape the multibillion-dollar live entertainment industry..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

Hi, everybody, it’s Sabrina. Before we start today, we wanted to invite you to something special. The Tribeca Festival is starting a brand new annual gala to celebrate excellence in audio. For this, the inaugural year, they’ve chosen to celebrate “The Daily.” We know you, our incredible audience, live all over the world, but we’d like to invite you to join us.

The gala is in New York, on June 9, at 5:00 pm. You can get all the details and buy tickets at tribecafil.com/thedaily. That’s tribecafilm.com/thedaily. I’ll be there, Michael too, along with a bunch of us from the show. Mo Rocca is going to host it. So if you’re in the area or you’re visiting, we’d love to see you there. OK, on with today’s show. From “The New York Times,” I’m Sabrina Tavernise. And this is “The Daily.”

I have got a bone to pick, as usual, with Ticketmaster.

The biggest problem that I have right now is not getting tickets to the Era Tour.

Loading, loading, loading. Want them so bad. Want them so bad. Want them so bad. Nope.

I looked at my account and the tickets are gone.

Over the past few years, few companies have provoked as much anger —

I cannot afford $1,500 tickets.

— among music fans.

Oh, my god.

— as Ticketmaster.

I literally hate Ticketmaster. Like, there is no company I think I hate more than Ticketmaster.

Ticketmaster ought to look in the mirror and say, I’m the problem. It’s me.

Last week, the Department of Justice announced it was taking the company to court. Today, my colleague David McCabe, on how the government’s case could reshape America’s multi-billion dollar live music industry.

It’s Thursday, May 30.

So, David, good to have you back. You have become a beloved guest at “The Daily,” because the government keeps bringing these huge antitrust cases and we keep turning to you to explain them.

Well, it’s a pleasure to be back. And today I have a question for you, which is, what was the first concert you ever went to?

Oh, my gosh. The first concert I ever went to? Oh, my god, I think it was Van Halen in the 1980s, which maybe is before you were born.

You know, no comment, but that’s a pretty good first concert.

And the case that we’re here to talk about today is actually all about shows like a Van Halen concert in 1980.

OK, I’m ready. So let’s get into it. This case, as you and I both know, is about Ticketmaster. So tell us about this case.

So anyone who attends concerts regularly or even irregularly probably knows about Ticketmaster. It’s kind of the ubiquitous digital box office. And those people are probably also familiar with the ubiquitous fan complaints about Ticketmaster — that the company puts high fees that they don’t entirely explain onto tickets, that tickets will sell out really fast during these sort of frantic pre-sales for tours, and that the website doesn’t always work very well.

And probably the most infamous Ticketmaster incident in recent memory was a couple of years ago when the pre-sale began for Taylor Swift’s massive Eras Tour. And fans got locked out, couldn’t get tickets and were absolutely furious. And it really put in the spotlight the power of this company over the ability to buy a ticket to a live music event.

So the DOJ is pointing the finger at this company for all this consumer angst at Ticketmaster.

Well, and when you say this company, it’s not just Ticketmaster. It’s the company that owns Ticketmaster, a company called Live Nation Entertainment. We’ll say Live Nation for short. And it’s a giant company. And to think about just how gigantic and how expansive Live Nation is, I think it’s helpful to think about the fan experience of going to a concert.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

It starts with buying a ticket. And maybe you buy a group of tickets for you and your friends. And then one of your friends can’t make it. They’ve got other plans. You resell their tickets so you can make your money back. And then the day of the show you go, it’s this big production. It’s at a venue. Someone has booked the artist to appear. You go, you buy a beer, you have a good time.

Live Nation is involved in many parts of that process, and that starts with being a major concert promoter. They’re the one putting it on, arranging the event. They’re also selling the tickets through Ticketmaster. Sometimes they’re also involved in reselling the tickets when your friend can’t make it.

And not only that, they actually sometimes manage the artists. And they own or operate the venues where the show is happening. So even down to that beer you’re drinking to enjoy with the show, they might be involved in picking the person who sells that beer to you.

So, basically, they’re everywhere.

They’re everywhere. And the Justice Department says that’s a big part of the problem, that its power is bad for fans.

Good morning. Earlier today, the Department of Justice —

And we really heard that come through at the press conference last week that the Justice Department held to announce this case —

People always remember the first time that they were transformed by live music.

— where Merrick Garland, the Attorney General, really personalized this issue.

I still remember, as a senior in college, going to a Bonnie Raitt concert and seeing a —

He told this story about going to a Bonnie Raitt concert in college.

Merrick Garland did?

Yeah, Merrick Garland did.

I don’t think of Merrick Garland and Bonnie Raitt together in the same sentence.

Well, apparently, in college he attended a Bonnie Raitt show. And the thing he highlighted was that the opener was a young Bruce Springsteen.

We all knew that we had just seen the future of rock and roll.

And in that story, the attorney general seems to be getting at two important threads of this case. The first is that concerts are formative for the people who attend them. And the second is that concerts are an important way that artists reach their fans. That young Bruce Springsteen went on to now be one of the biggest touring artists in the world.

The Justice Department filed this lawsuit on behalf of fans who should be able to go to concerts without a monopoly standing in their way. We have filed this lawsuit on behalf of artists who should be able —

And so the Justice Department is responding here to a feeling that Live Nation, this giant company, has become a gatekeeper for both artists and fans. And that has allowed it to pay artists less sometimes, but also charge fans those fees that they’re so mad about.

It is time for fans and artists to stop paying the price for Live Nation’s monopoly. Thank you.

So help us understand how things have gotten to this point, where Live Nation is so powerful that the DOJ feels the need to sue them.

Well, this company has a long history of tangling with the Justice Department. And that really starts in 2009, when Live Nation and Ticketmaster announced that they were going to merge. And this merger, this big corporate deal, will marry Live Nation’s concert promotion business, the business of putting on shows, with Ticketmaster’s experience as an online ticketing platform.

And the Justice Department — a big part of its job is looking at corporate mergers to figure out if they will substantially lessen competition in the economy. So the Justice Department reviews this merger, and in 2010 decides we will let this merger go through. But we do have some concerns that it might reduce competition in the industry of ticketing. And so we’re going to reach a legal settlement with Live Nation and Ticketmaster that puts conditions on the deal, that requires the company to sell some assets to kind of lessen its footprint. And so the merger goes through. And that creates the sort of modern day Live Nation, Ticketmaster combination.

So the government ultimately actually just lets it happen.

That’s right. They put conditions on the merger, but ultimately they let it go through. And the company continues to tangle with the Justice Department over the next 15 or so years. But mostly they keep getting bigger. They keep growing their footprint across this ecosystem that creates some of the biggest concert tours in the country.

So just how big has the company actually become? Give me some numbers.

Well, let’s start here. Every year, they sell about 600 million tickets.

600 million tickets? That’s more than the number of people in the United States of America.

Yeah. And that is a global number, but it’s a lot of tickets. Right? The Department of Justice estimates that in the United states, Live Nation controls about percent of ticketing to major venue concerts.

So that’s a big percentage. They also own or control, like, in excess of 250 venues, including a big percentage, the Justice Department says, of major amphitheaters, the kind of big outdoor concert venues that are ultimately kind of in between a nightclub and the size of a big football stadium. And they manage hundreds of artists. They have this direct relationship with artists. And so this company is wide and it is deep into this industry.

So ultimately, the Justice Department says that — and I’m going to quote here — it’s the, quote, “gatekeeper for delivery of nearly all live music in America today.”

OK, it’s big. But as we know from other DOJ cases — and this is something that you have taught me, David — the cases against Apple and Google, just being big is not in and of itself a problem.

That’s right. Where companies run afoul of the law is when they use their power as a monopoly against their competitors in order to stay powerful or get more powerful.

And the Justice Department says that Live Nation has built a complex machine to do just that.

We’ll be right back.

So what does the DOJ say that Live Nation is able to do because it is so big? How does it use its bigness?

So the most prominent allegation is that Live Nation uses its power as a concert promoter to entrench its power in ticketing. As a reminder, when you put together a concert, a promoter works with an artist to book the show. They book the show at a venue. And that venue, for all of its shows, has to choose a ticketing provider, a digital box office where people can buy their way into the shows.

And what the Justice Department is arguing here is that Live Nation is able to wield its big artists, the tours that it promotes, as a cudgel to force venues to use Ticketmaster, its ticketing service. So the Justice Department says that in an instance in which a venue switched away from using Ticketmaster, that Live Nation routed tours around that venue, which of course means less money for that venue and a problem for their business.

Interesting. So basically, Live Nation is saying, look, if you want Taylor Swift in your little amphitheater over there, you’re going to have to use Ticketmaster. It’s Ticketmaster or no Taylor Swift.

That is effectively the behavior the Justice Department is arguing has happened here. They’re saying that Live Nation does this in veiled ways and that, more importantly, it’s really understood by venues throughout the industry that if you don’t use Ticketmaster, that you really risk out on losing important Live Nation managed tours. And then once these venues do choose Ticketmaster, Live Nation locks them into these long, exclusive ticketing contracts, which can last for as long as 14 years.

14 years? That’s pretty long. What else is DOJ alleging that Live Nation has done?

Another thing the Justice Department says that Live Nation does is use its power as an owner of venues to get away with paying artists less money for their tours.

So how does that work?

Basically, the argument is that because Live Nation controls so many of certain types of venues, that there are instances in which an artist’s tour might largely be dominated by Live Nation owned venues. And the Justice Department is saying that Live Nation knows that artists don’t have a lot of other options for where to play their concerts and, as a result, is able to pay those artists less. Because there’s not competitive pressure when they’re booking those tours.

That seems pretty unfair to artists who would really benefit from other venues owned by other people competing for them.

And that’s exactly what the Justice Department is saying, that artists lose out, not just fans. And there’s a striking story in the complaint that I think crystallizes how the Justice Department sees these streams of power coming together.

And it concerns a concert, which the lawsuit doesn’t name, in 2021. My colleague Ben Sisario has reported that it was a Kanye West concert featuring Drake. It was a benefit show, and it was taking place at the LA Coliseum in Los Angeles.

One of the companies involved in putting on this show was a firm called TEG. They do promotion and ticketing of the kind that Live Nation does. And the government says that Live Nation saw this as a threat, that they saw this company TEG involved in this show, and they were worried about what it would mean for them, and that they then undertook steps to put pressure on TEG and make their life difficult in a couple of ways.

The first was that TEG had reached a deal to sell some tickets, according to the complaint, through StubHub. StubHub is a secondary resale market. You can buy tickets to shows when people aren’t going to use them.

Right, and competitor to Ticketmaster, right?

And competitor to Ticketmaster. And the Justice Department says that Live Nation found out about that and said, well, we have the exclusive ticketing contract for this venue. And so we will make sure that if you bought your ticket on StubHub, you won’t be allowed to come in to this show.

Really? Like, they couldn’t come into the concert?

Well, and ultimately, the complaint says that StubHub had to work with Ticketmaster to fulfill the tickets that had already been sold, that they stopped selling new tickets, and that hundreds of people who bought their tickets on StubHub didn’t get into the show.

That seems very unfair. Like, they bought a ticket.

Well, and according to the Justice Department, it didn’t stop there, that Live Nation used its industry connections to pressure an investor in TEG, this company that it viewed as a threat, and that it pushed that investor to pull back from its relationship with TEG, which obviously would have weakened this potential competitor.

So these are very strong armed tactics. What is the DOJ saying is the result of all of this? What does all of this amount to?

It says that all of this adds up to higher fees for consumers and a worse product, a worse quality ticketing experience when fans go to buy. Because Live Nation doesn’t have to compete with anyone. It doesn’t have to innovate in response to competitors. So, among other things, the Justice Department wants to break this company up, at the very least by separating Ticketmaster, the ticketing unit, the box office unit, from the rest of Live Nation that does all these other things — promotes concerts, owns venues, et cetera.

So in other words, go back to the way it was in the beginning.

Yeah, or as much as you can.

And why does that fix the problem?

Well, the Justice Department doesn’t say a lot on this point. But it’s clear that what they want to do with this lawsuit is disrupt this cycle where Live Nation’s power reinforces itself again, and again, and again.

And what does Live Nation say in response? I imagine they disagree with all of this.

They do. They’ve said a lot. And they start out by saying something that will be familiar to you, because other companies that have been accused of antitrust violations say it as well, which is that they don’t fit the profile of a monopoly, that their overall profit margins are lower than those of companies like Meta, or Apple, or Google, and that even if you look at Ticketmaster specifically, they take a smaller percentage of every sale than a lot of other digital platforms. So they say basically the numbers show that we don’t have the kind of power you would normally associate with a monopoly.

And then they say, listen, we know that there are things that fans don’t like about the ticketing experience. There may be fixes to those. But largely, it’s not Live Nation’s fault, they say. They say that artists generally set the prices they want people to pay for tickets.

Really? So artists themselves do it.

Right, that artists sign off on how much a ticket will cost to their shows.

And they also say that demand sometimes drives ticket prices up. If there are more people who want to see a show than there are seats or standing room to see that show, the prices will be higher. And finally, they say that there’s this kind of pernicious outside force of scalpers, people who resell tickets, that use bots to hoover up way more tickets than they could possibly use and then resell them at a higher price. And so they say that all of these things may contribute to a fan experience that people don’t like, but that it’s not necessarily Live Nation’s fault.

I mean, to me, this makes certain sense. I guess if you think of a Taylor Swift show and lots of people trying to buy tickets, one reason why those tickets are expensive is not necessarily because there’s something nefarious going on, but because lots of people want to buy tickets. And there’s a market, and supply and demand has a role here.

Well, and a clear question here that I have, that other people have asked, is how much does the Justice Department think ticket prices have gone up because of this alleged Live Nation monopoly? And the Justice Department hasn’t answered that question.

They haven’t disentangled it with all of the other stuff that’s around — market forces, everything?

That’s right. And there’s another element of Live Nation’s response that we should mention, which is that the company basically says this lawsuit is politically motivated, that this administration, the Biden administration, is bringing lawsuits that don’t hold a lot of water but are anti-business. That’s what Live Nation is saying.

I mean, it does sort of ring true in some sense. Right? This has been the tilt of this administration toward cracking down on big companies. The DOJ has changed in this respect. They’re filing a lawsuit to break up a merger that a previous DOJ had actually approved.

Well, you’re right. This Department of Justice, this administration more broadly, has a different view about antitrust. They think that antitrust law can be a more expansive tool to address problems in the economy. And they’ve put that into practice. They’ve sued Google for violating anti-monopoly laws. They’ve sued Apple for violating anti-monopoly laws.

But I think ultimately what they believe is that they’re responding to a change in the economy, that these companies have gotten much bigger, that they have gotten more powerful. And they are responding to the way the companies broke the law on their way to becoming that big.

So, David, when you and I talked about Google and Apple — you referenced them here — you know, we talked about how there were broad repercussions for the future on American society. What would you say the implications are in this case?

This case ultimately, for the Justice Department, is about the market for culture and creativity. You know, a few years ago, the Justice Department successfully blocked Penguin Random House, a big publisher, from buying Simon and Schuster, another publisher. And they said that one problem with this merger was that it would reduce how much authors got paid, and that it would create a market where fewer books and fewer types of stories broke through.

This Justice Department is embracing an idea that the more concentrated the economy gets, the more it stifles creative expression, the ability of artists to make art and get it to the public and the ability of the public to consume it. And that, they say, is a central question of democracy. Because things like music are how we talk about big social issues or big political issues. So that is, they say, what’s at the heart of this case, that it is not just about the fees, it’s not just about how much an artist gets paid. But it’s about whether or not there is a fair marketplace for ideas, and whether or not consumers are able to access it.

David, thank you.

Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING]

Here’s what else you should know today. On Wednesday, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito declined to recuse himself from two cases arising from the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol after “The Times” reported that flags displayed outside his houses appeared to support the Stop the Steal movement. In letters to Democratic members of Congress who had demanded his recusal, Justice Alito said that the flags, at his home in Virginia and a beach house in New Jersey, were flown by his wife, Martha Ann, and that he had had nothing to do with it.

And a group of 12 New York jurors deliberated for more than four hours in the final stretch of the criminal trial of Donald Trump, in which the former president is accused of falsifying business records. The jurors asked for portions of the testimony from two witnesses to be read back to them, as well as the judge’s instructions. They were then dismissed for the day and will resume deliberations today.

Today’s episode was produced by Will Reid, Rob Szypko and Rachelle Bonja. It was edited by Michael Benoit and Brendan Klinkenberg, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Dan Powell, and Will Reid, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Sabrina Tavernise. See you tomorrow.

• May 31, 2024   •   31:29 Guilty
• May 30, 2024   •   25:21 The Government Takes On Ticketmaster
• May 29, 2024   •   29:46 The Closing Arguments in the Trump Trial
• May 28, 2024   •   25:56 The Alitos and Their Flags
• May 24, 2024   •   25:18 Whales Have an Alphabet
• May 23, 2024   •   34:24 I.C.C. Prosecutor Requests Warrants for Israeli and Hamas Leaders
• May 22, 2024   •   23:20 Biden’s Open War on Hidden Fees
• May 21, 2024   •   24:14 The Crypto Comeback
• May 20, 2024   •   31:51 Was the 401(k) a Mistake?
• May 19, 2024   •   33:23 The Sunday Read: ‘Why Did This Guy Put a Song About Me on Spotify?’
• May 17, 2024   •   51:10 The Campus Protesters Explain Themselves
• May 16, 2024   •   30:47 The Make-or-Break Testimony of Michael Cohen

Hosted by Sabrina Tavernise

Featuring David McCabe

Produced by Will Reid ,  Rob Szypko and Rachelle Bonja

Edited by Brendan Klinkenberg and Michael Benoist

Original music by Marion Lozano ,  Dan Powell and Will Reid

Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

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Over recent years, few companies have provoked more anger among music fans than Ticketmaster. Last week, the Department of Justice announced it was taking the business to court.

David McCabe, who covers technology policy for The Times, explains how the case could reshape America’s multibillion-dollar live music industry.

On today’s episode

David McCabe , a technology policy correspondent for The New York Times.

Background reading

The government is accusing Ticketmaster’s corporate parent, Live Nation Entertainment, of violating antitrust laws .

Here’s a guide to the emails at the heart of the government’s case .

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The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson, Nina Lassam and Nick Pitman.

David McCabe covers tech policy. He joined The Times from Axios in 2019. More about David McCabe

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