pga tour dispersion stats

Trackman Tour Averages

At Trackman, we're dedicated to providing the most accurate and up-to-date data to enhance your golfing experience. That's why we're excited to announce the release of our new Tour Averages, reflecting the latest insights from leading professional golf tours.

How We Gathered the Data

Our team has been hard at work collecting data from a wide range of pro players, utilizing Trackman technology to capture every swing and shot with precision.

Explore the New Tour Averages

Discover the latest numbers for both PGA and LPGA Tours, now presented in a redesigned format for easy reference. To see how the game has progressed over time, check out this link to see what’s changed compared to the last Tour Averages.

What's Changed Since Last Time

Since Trackman last revealed the Tour Averages, certain areas of the game have changed. When driving, for instance, players are now hitting further, with greater ball speed and less spin rate. See how your figures compare to the pros.

The Impact of Trackman

Trackman's role in driving performance gains cannot be understated. From influencing club manufacture to revolutionizing training methods and making data more accessible, Trackman continues to shape the future of golf.

Stay Informed

Whether you're a seasoned pro or a weekend warrior, Trackman is here to help you reach new heights on the course. So stay tuned for more updates and insights from Trackman as we continue to push the boundaries of golf technology.

Get the New Tour Assets

The updated Tour Averages data is available for download here in various formats (incl. in meters or yards), whether you're a coaching professional or simply want them handy on your phone when you're on the range.

Key Insights:

Male data is captured across 40+ different events and 200+ different players.

Data is captured at both PGA TOUR and DP World Tour events with majority coming from PGA TOUR events.

Female data is captured across 30+ different events and 150+ different players.

Data is captured at both LPGA and LET events with majority coming from LPGA events.

Averages are based on data from competition as well as on the range.

There are multiple processes in place to eliminate shots hit with a non-driver during competition.

There could be a small number of non-driver shots in the dataset (less than 0.5 percent).

Official stat holes are picked going in opposite directions to reduce any effects from wind.

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Golf Stats: PGA Tour player approach shots

Golf stats: how pga tour pros perform on approach shots and why that matters to you.

By  Jon Levy

Are you a stats junkie?

In other words, are you that person who can, at will, recite the batting averages for the entire 2009 New York Yankees World Series team and up-to-the-minute stats in virtually any sport? In golf, do you know every score you’ve shot for the past ten years and track fairways hit, GIR, putts and countless other performance stats with your own game?

Our new series, Golf Stats , takes a look at every stat imaginable in the game of golf. So if that’s the case, listen up.

If you don’t share our unrelenting penchant for numbers nerdiness, well, you may be surprised how more clarity on the game can help your own. Because it’s no secret GolfTEC is a big proponent of knowing the facts when it comes to golf improvement, and this goes far beyond initiatives like the GolfTEC SwingTRU Motion Study . So, take heed as we roll out a variety of golf stats that put you in the know.

As explained this week in the infographics below: How PGA Tour players fare on approach shots from 100-125, 150-175 and 200-plus yards.

PGA Tour player approach shots: 100-125 yards

• GIR: 74.59%
• Proximity from the fairway: 20’0″
• Proximity from the rough: 30’3″

PGA Tour player approach shots: 150-175 yards

• GIR: 63.95%
• Proximity from the fairway: 27’6″
• Proximity from the rough: 41’5″

PGA Tour player approach shots: Over 200 yards

• GIR: 46.06%
• Proximity from the fairway: 50’3″
• Proximity from the rough: 72’9″

Why these stats matter to YOU

This is precisely why a better understanding of golf stats can help. Knowing data points like how the world’s best only hit the green with less than half of their shots from over 200 yards — and still just 75 percent of greens with wedges — should tell you even they are far from perfect. It should also say to  replace that 4-iron you’ve pulled from deep rough in an attempt to “go for it” with a club you know keeps it in play .

Not just course management, but practice management

Course management is one thing, but knowing Tour pro stats can also help you fine-tune which parts of your game need the most work.

This means that if you do notice a part of your game is close to a specific Tour player stat,   or one that conversely falls far below in relation to everything else, you can more easily pinpoint the areas needing the most attention (i.e. a weakness in long putts vs. short putts, tee shots vs. approach shots, etc.). This will help maximize your effectiveness during practice.

By the way, this is a good time to say if you’re not one who tracks their stats on the golf course, you should start. Now.

Tracking simple stats like greens in regulation, fairways hit from the tee, a breakdown of putting performance like total putts, three-putts and length of putts made/missed, up-and-down conversions, etc., may not provide the fully detailed view of your game like the PGA Tour does for its players , but anytime you can create a better overall picture of your game it’s a step in the right direction.

How to track your own stats

New golf tracking software products and apps hit the market seemingly everyday. So there are plenty of great options available to track your own golf stats. If you prefer keep things a bit more old school, however, even just a simple addition to your scorecard can do the trick.

The bottom line

Become a stats junkie with your golf game and your scores will thank you for it. Stay tuned as our Golf Stats series continues …

Related: Aim small to a big target for more GIR The Approach: Red, yellow or green?

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PGA Tour Averages: Proximity To Hole 50-200 Yards

You guys asked for it, so here you go. I wonder if there’s anything there that caught you by surprise?

PGA Tour averages – Proximity to hole:

50-75 yards: 16’ 6” 75-100 yards: 17’10” 100-125 yards: 20’ 4” 125-150 yards: 23’ 8” 150-175 yards: 28’ 9” 175-200 yards: 35’ 9”

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Want to become a better golf bettor? Here are the stats you should be paying attention to

Collin Morikawa plays a shot on the 14th hole during the final round of the 2020 PGA Championship.

Sean M. Haffey

Despite the success of our expert panel of golf handicappers over the last year, we’d never tell you that predicting winners is easy. Truth is, picking which tour pro will be the one holding the trophy on Sunday is much tougher than, say, betting on a football game with only a few outcomes. To think you can consistently predict the winner of these tournaments is downright foolish.

The evolution of stats and data to better predict golf events has grown rapidly in a short amount of time. And that makes it easier than ever to make what a “sharp” bettor would call a “good bet.” The trick here is that with so many “new” stats at your fingertips, picking and choosing which ones to focus on can be a challenge. Plus, as Pat Mayo of “The Pat Mayo Experience” and Mayo Media Network says, you should try to use as many as you can.

“Isolating one stat doesn’t do anyone a service,” Mayo says. “The point is to get a full view so you can map out how a player scored like he did.”

RELATED: 15 signs you watch too much golf on TV

While Mayo is right, there are a handful of key stats that you should be focusing on when making your picks. In speaking to Mayo—and some of the most respected experts in the industry—plus listening to and reading all of the gambling content available to us, here are the smart stats you should be utilizing when you’re betting on golf.

Strokes gained/approach-the-green (SG/APP)

If you read our column, listen to any betting podcast ( “Be Right” preferably ) or spend any time scrolling through gambling Twitter, strokes gained/approach-the-green is the one stat that comes up most. By definition, SG/APP is: “the number of approach strokes a player takes from specific locations and distances as measured against a statistical baseline to determine the player’s strokes gained or lost on a hole.” In short, being at the top of SG/APP means you are an elite iron player.

“I’d say SG/approach holds the most value,” said Drew Mathews, who won the 2018 DraftKings Millionaire Maker Contest . “While it’s always nice to see stats like strokes gained/off-the-tee supplement the ‘why’ behind SG/APP numbers, it does tell me the most about where someone’s game is at leading into that week. Being able to see approach numbers is very valuable for a betting card.”

Last season on the PGA Tour, Justin Thomas and Collin Morikawa ranked first and second, respectively, in SG/APP . They combined for five wins, including a major, 17 top 10s and more than $12.5 million in earnings. It’s no wonder that Brandon Gdula, managing editor and analyst at numberFire, FanDuel’s analytics platform, starts his handicapping each week by looking at the SG/APP numbers.

“Over the 2018-’19 PGA Tour season, a golfer’s made-cut percentage correlated strongly with his strokes gained/approach number,” says Gdula, noting the actual correlation (or “r” for real stat geeks) was 0.59, followed distantly by strokes gained/around the green (0.44), off-the-tee (0.37) and putting (0.29). “What this tells us is that consistency stems largely from iron play, which makes sense, intuitively. Strokes gained/approach comes into play on virtually every hole, including tee shots on par 3s.”

Justin Thomas finished the 2019-'20 PGA Tour season first in strokes gained/approach-the-green.

Gdula goes further by noting that, according to datagolf.com , 34.7 percent of the scoring dispersion—how golfers separate from the field—on the average PGA Tour course historcially is explained by SG/APP. That’s greater than strokes gained/off-the-tee and strokes gained/around the green combined (29.5 percent). And while strokes gained/putting is a little higher than approach at 35.8 percent, putting is harder to predict each week than iron play is.

An easy way to view why that’s important, Gdula says, is to consider what the field leader in a PGA Tour event adds, on average, based on each category from 2020 PGA Tour events—SG/off-the-tee: +5.3 strokes; SG/APP: +8.1 strokes; SG/ around-the-green: +5.4 strokes; SG/putting: +8.4 strokes.

In other words, the best driver in a golf field adds an average of +5.3 strokes from the tee. But that is only 66 percent as many strokes as the best approach player nets in a week from his irons. If you’re aiming to add the most strokes on the field, the best way to do it tee-to-green is from approach play.

“Golfers still have to putt well to win and contend in a given week,” Gdula says, “but without good iron play, they’ll need to get extremely lucky to be in the mix.”

To find strokes gained/approach-the-green stats leaders, click here .

RELATED: How To Bet On Golf Legally

Strokes gained/ball-striking (SG/BS)

This metric, which Mayo says is his starting point each week when researching a tournament, is an unofficial PGA Tour stat that combines a players’ strokes gained/off-the-tee numbers and their strokes gained/approach numbers. Data scientist Rick Gehman, founder of RickRunGood.com and the RickRunGood YouTube channel, also swears by this statistic.

“This stat not only passes the eye-test, but it also gets the nod from the math,” Gehman says. “SG/APP, by itself, is the most important single stat. It’s the one stat that most strongly correlates with finishing position. Meaning that the best approach players in the world find themselves near the top of the leader board more often than the best putters in the world. … The next most correlated stat to success is strokes gained/off-the-tee. There’s a reason that Bryson DeChambeau chases distance with the driver. If you can hit the ball further and straighter than your peers, you are at a significant competitive advantage.”

Xander Schauffele was among the top 20 in strokes gained/ball-striking last season.

Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images

So, naturally, when you combine the two to get strokes gained/ball-striking that accounts for the majority of shots that a golfer takes in a single round and most accurately predicts success, Gehman says. He notes that it should be no surprise that the top 10 golfers in SG/BS since the start of 2020 have accounted for 13 wins in the 32 events played this calendar year, a 40.6 winning percentage.

To find strokes gained/ball-striking stats leaders, click here .

At the end of the 2019-’20 season, Collin Morikawa, Dustin Johnson, Scottie Scheffler, Harris English, Xander Schauffele, Webb Simpson and Jon Rahm were among those who finished inside the top 20 of the SG/BS stat. This group of ball-strikers is also very good in our next key statistical area.

RELATED: 9 golf trips we’re dreaming of taking this winter

Strokes gained/tee-to-green (SG/T2G)

Similar to ball-striking, SG/T2G gives you a better understanding of how good a player is throughout his bag, rather than just with the driver or just with the irons. By definition, SG/T2G is the “per round average of the number of strokes the player was better or worse than the field average on the same course and event minus the players strokes gained/putting value.” In layman’s terms, SG/T2G is an encapsulation of a player’s entire game, including his around-the-green play, but not his putting. While Gdula believes SG/APP is the most important stat to focus on, T2G is a close second. “If you can only pick one stat to rely on in a given week,” Gdula says, “it should really be strokes gained/tee-to-green.”

To find strokes gained/tee-to-green stats leaders, click here .

RELATED: Inside the life of a PGA Tour caddie

Jon Rahm isn't just long off the tee, but accurate as well, explaining his No. 2 ranking in Total Driving in the 2019-'20 season.

Jamie Squire

Total Driving

While driving distance is all the rage, it still helps to keep it in the fairway, even if DeChambeau proved at Winged Foot that fairways hit can be overrated. But on many PGA Tour courses, keeping it in the short stuff is still key. The “total driving” stat factors in a player’s driving distance and their driving accuracy, which is the percentage of time a player’s tee shot comes to rest in the fairway regardless of club. The players who rank high in total driving are ones you’ll often see at the top of the leader board, like Paul Casey (first in total driving in 2019-’20), Jon Rahm (second), Tommy Fleetwood (sixth), Scottie Scheffler (seventh) and Sungjae Im (10th).

To find total driving stats leaders, click here .

Opportunities Gained

Now we’re getting into the not-so-traditional stats, ones you’ll have to pay up to find. FantasyNational.com , datagolf.com and fansharesports.com are all excellent resources for gamblers, and that’s where you’ll find a lot of these deeper stats. One of them being Opportunities Gained, which keeps track of how many “scoring” opportunities—basically birdie opportunities—a player is gaining on the field. Fantasy National describes a scoring opportunity as a birdie opportunity inside of 15 feet on the green or the fringe, plus greens/fringe “under” regulation, which is an eagle opportunity. You’ll often see some of the better iron players in the world lead this stat, like Emiliano Grillo. Unfortunately, guys like Grillo or Kyle Stanley and other world-class approach players don’t always capitalize on these opportunities with the putter.

Birdie-or-Better Gained/Birdie or Better Percentage

The Birdies or Better percentage, which you can find on PGATour.com , is exactly what you think it is: the percent of time a birdie or better is recorded by the player. On FantasyNational.com, they go a step deeper: They keep track of the number of birdies or better a player has gained on the field. Both will give you an idea of who can really fill it up. Webb Simpson, Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson, Tyrrell Hatton and Bryson DeChambeau were the top five players in this category last season. Sounds like a winning stat to us.

RELATED: The major that never happened

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Approach shots: average proximity to the hole

24 August 2020 0 0 Share on Twitter Share on Facebook

Are golfers really best off getting as close to the green as possible?

Analysing average distance to pin for approach shots. Could mid-irons could be better options for some players compared to short-irons/wedges?

Shot Scope have analysed their database of golfers to find out just how close golfers hit the ball from varying approach shots.

From short approach shots (60-100 yards) the average proximity is shown below from 3 different lie types: fairway, rough and bunker.

It is evident that the longer grass and sand impacts the golfer’s ability to hit the ball close. This could be due to a poorer strike than from the fairway or lack of distance control including understanding how each type of lie affects how far the ball will run.

Hitting this shot from the fairway, gives the golfer the best chance to hit it close. Average proximity from the fairway is 40ft.

If this shot was to be hit from the rough, proximity would increase to 46ft and from the bunker increase even more to 56ft, on average.

The image above provides a breakdown of performance by handicap. This allows conclusions to be drawn on the fact that lower handicap golfers hit approach shots closer across all lie types, and subsequently take less shots to finish.

To play these shots well, the focus should be on the landing area, not necessarily the pin itself. Different lie types, have different roll out from the shot. It is important to learn and understand how far the ball will roll out from different lie types. Understanding this, will allow the focus to be on the landing area.

For example, the general rule is, if the ball is in the rough, it will run out further than a shot hit from the fairway.

Iron Play Approach Shots Statistics

GIR, average proximity, distance

The images below highlight the varying greens in regulation statistics by club and handicap. These types of statistics provide golfer’s with a quick and easy method to analyse their approach shots.

Pulling all of these statistics together, shows that on average, a golfer hits their shot closer to the pin, the closer they are to the green for their approach shot. The image below highlights this nicely. It is clear that as the club becomes more lofted (and subsequent distance to the pin decreases), the approach shots are hit closer.

The statistics revealed in this blog, highlight that approach shots are hit closer to the pin, the closer to the green a golfer is. This means that when selecting what club to hit for the previous shot (tee shot or par 5 lay up), the aim should be to get as close to the hole as possible. The lie type of the approach shot should be considered too, as it is evident that rough and bunkers impact the shot.

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Post round, more than 100 different statistics can be reviewed via the Shot Scope V3 mobile app or Shot Scope’s online dashboard on different clubs, tee shots, approaches, short game and putting to help improve on course strategy and lower scores.

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Lauren Hartlage Plays Way Into Limelight at KPMG Women’s PGA Championship

Amazing bunker shot on 18 propels riley grimm to victory.

• Lauren Hartlage
• kpmg-womens-pga-championship
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SAMMAMISH, Wash. — Lauren Hartlage might not be super familiar with being in professional golf’s limelight. But she isn’t shying away from the big moment this week at the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship.

Through three rounds at Sahalee Country Club, Hartlage is tied for second at 5-under total, two back of 54-hole leader Amy Yang at the year’s third major championship. After a ho-hum 1-over 73 start on Thursday, the 26-year-old turned up the heat on Friday and Saturday in Sammamish, Wash., making five birdies in her last seven holes in the second round to post a 3-under 69, two pairs of which came back-to-back on holes 12 and 13 as well as 15 and 16.

Moving Day saw Hartlage go bogey-free, an impressive feat at a difficult ball-striking venue like Sahalee. She made three birdies on holes 4, 11 and 16 en route to another 69, hitting 15 of 18 greens and 12 of 14 fairways, the latter of which is also a stellar accomplishment considering how narrow this venue plays off the tee.

After her strong play over the last two days, the University of Louisville alum now finds herself squarely in the mix at the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship with 18 holes to play. And even though this is only the third time she has been within five of the lead entering the final round since she joined the LPGA Tour in 2022, Hartlage is more than ready to contend on Sunday for her first major championship title, a lifelong goal she’s had since getting into golf in the first place.

“I'm super excited,” said Hartlage. “I’ve never been in this position before, and this is something that I dreamed about growing up as a kid, so it's really awesome to be in this position and see how it goes and learn from every day, every round.”

Hartlage hails from Elizabethtown, Kentucky, one of few LPGA Tour athletes to ever come from the Bluegrass State. And while Elizabethtown Country Club – the course at which she when she is home – bears little similarity to Sahalee with its towering evergreens and tight fairways, the tree-lined look still feels familiar to Hartlage, something that has appeared to be beneficial for her this week.

“I love tree-lined golf courses and rough. It’s what I'm used to at home,” Hartlage said of Sahalee. “Obviously, the trees are a lot bigger than in Kentucky, but I do like this style of golf course. I was excited to see how my game shaped up around here.”

Despite being quite a ways away from home in the Pacific Northwest, Hartlage does have a few people cheering her on this week at Sahalee. Her swing coach, PGA Tour winner Grant Waite, has been on-site all week, working with Hartlage on some little things in her golf swing and helping to keep her grounded when the major championship anxiety starts to creep in.

“(We have) been working on a couple of things throughout the beginning of the year. Working on those same things and getting more comfortable and being able to play with those feels has been really helpful,” Hartlage said. “Yesterday, before my round, I wasn't hitting it great on the range, and Grant was there. He's like, ‘I've seen so many people hit terrible on the range and then win the tournament.’ Little things like that, knowing how it is as a player out here. He understands what we're going through, so it's been super helpful for me, especially this week.”

Her mother Kim is also in the gallery at the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship, traveling as much as she can with her daughter as Hartlage competes week in and week out on the LPGA Tour. Of course, having a parent around can help an athlete both mentally and emotionally as they chase their dreams on some of the world’s biggest stages.

But Hartlage’s mom has a unique experience with the game, one that allows her to have a different perspective when it comes to her daughter’s success and helps her provide invaluable encouragement that has been critical to Lauren’s success as a professional athlete.

“She was my high school golf coach. She got me into it, so it’s great to have her out here because she understands everything that comes along with playing golf, the ups and downs,” said Hartlage. “It's been nice to have my parents come whenever they can. Especially during the summer, they're able to come to more tournaments. They love golf, and they're very supportive of me.

“They don't add any extra pressure. They just want to see me happy and do as well as I can. It's been great to have them in my corner just to always be there for me.”

Lauren Hartlage climbing the leaderboard with this approach 👏 She's now T2 at -5 pic.twitter.com/PYiMThiSYh — LPGA (@LPGA) June 22, 2024

Sunday’s final round will see Hartlage contend for a major title for the very first time in her young career, a position she has yet to find herself in after competing for three years on the LPGA Tour. Even the most storied of veterans can struggle to feel like they are truly meant for the brightest spotlights in golf, and Hartlage has definitely fallen into that trap in the years since she first earned LPGA Tour status.

But Hartlage has worked hard this season on her mentality, efforts that appear to finally be paying off at the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship.

“I have been back to Q-School the last few years, so haven't been playing my best, and it's easy to think that you don't belong or you're not able to win a tournament,” Hartlage explained. “But I have people on my team helping me and leading me along the way and keeping my confidence up, which has been really, really nice to have.

“A problem I had had at the beginning of the year is I like to look at the future, and if I miss a cut or two, I'm already like, I'm going to miss the next three cuts. It's hard to not to give yourself some negative thoughts (about) your day or round if you hit some bad shots. So just staying more in the moment. Recognizing that one bad shot or tournament doesn't mean the rest of your season is going to be bad.”

No matter what happens tomorrow, Hartlage can certainly chalk this week in Washington up as a huge success, one that should serve as a confidence booster as she looks ahead to the rest of the 2024 season.

But she has still got one more opportunity to make the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship her maiden professional title, and even if the nerves start to crop up as she makes her around Sahalee tomorrow, Hartlage will take solace in the fact that she is more than good enough to contend on the LPGA Tour, a fact that has never felt truer than now for the 26-year-old.

“I don't think you're ever going to be completely comfortable out there,” said Hartlage. “It's just managing your feelings and letting yourself stay in the moment. I know I'm not going to be comfortable on the first tee tomorrow. Just accepting that and letting it play more freely out there.”

Vibes are high going into Champ Sunday @KPMGWomensPGA 🏆 pic.twitter.com/T3FzZ598uU — LPGA (@LPGA) June 23, 2024

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PERFORMANCE OF THE AVERAGE MALE AMATEUR GOLFER

How TrackMan Combine can improve your game

The average USGA handicap for male golfers has been between 14.0 and 15.0 since 2005. GHIN reported the average male handicap at 15.3 in 2003 and 14.3 in 2012.

Although there is a slow trend towards improvement, many in the golf industry wonder why progress has not been faster. To make such large scale improvements, we must first better understand the “patient” in order to diagnose the problems. As such, this article will focus on the performance of the average male amateur (AMA).

The AMA has a reported handicap of 14 or 15. There is no age or nationality restriction for the AMA. The TrackMan Combine data collected from over 10,000 golfers of all levels from around the world will be used to analyze his performance in hopes of better understanding where improvement(s) can be made.

Club Speed for Average Male Golfers

When looking at how the AMA performs, let’s start with the drive. The AMA has an average club speed of 93.4 mph and an average total distance of 214 yards.

The following graph shows the distribution of AMA Driver club speeds. As you can see, 45% have a club speed between 91 and 100 mph. 

The AMA is far from efficient with his driver. He has an average attack angle of -1.6 degrees. The following table looks at the AMA versus what is optimal. 

*Carry, Landing Angle, and Total were normalized under 0 alti- tude, 75°F, and 75% humidity for the AMA to create an apples to apples comparison 

Did you know that the average amateur golfer is giving up 30 yards off the tee?

The AMA is capable of carrying the ball much further than his current total distance. He is giving up 30 yards of total distance off the tee, which makes his approach shots more difficult. Let’s consider the (average) approach shot distance that the AMA will have on an “average” par 4.

First we have to determine the average length of the par 4’s at your course from the different tees available.

The following is Torrey Pines South, where golfers line up each morning for a chance to play one of America’s 100 Greatest Public Courses (Golf Digest). The calculated distances for the approach shot are based on actual driver data and optimized driver data for the AMA is also listed.

*Normalized data was used to calculate approach shot distances 

Even when playing from the green tees at Torrey Pine South, the AMA is left with 165 yards for his approach shot. Hitting long irons or hybrids into all of the par 4’s does not set the AMA up for an enjoyable day on the golf course.

Golf critics talk about technology making golf courses obsolete because of distance, but what they fail to clarify is that this only pertains to 0.1% of the golfing population. In truth, the vast majority of golfers are playing from tees that are too long based on their club speed and skill level.

If golfers are to continue playing the same length tees, then optimizing their driver distance is going to be key to enhancing their performance.

The previous table looked at the approach distance the AMA will have based on hole length and average drive distance.

Achievable proximity

Let’s go one step further and use the TrackMan Combine data to see what kind of proximity to hole the AMA will be able to achieve at the various approach distances.

The next table uses the approach distances from the previous and calculates the proximity to hole.

Because of the trends and correlations found in the TrackMan Combine data, it is possible to calculate the proximity to hole for nearly any handicap or approach distance with high confidence.

The average green size at Torrey Pines South is 6,000 square feet. That means the distance from the center of the green to the edge averages just under 44 feet.

This data further confirms the need for most golfers to aim towards the center of the green on all approach shots. Or when hazards are present, it may be even wiser to aim for the opposite edge of the green.

Once AMA understands the likely outcomes for various shots, then he can most effectively implement course strategy for the benefit of improving his golf performance.

Knowing what club to hit based on distance and the safest place to aim based on dispersion tendencies will undoubtedly benefit the golfer.

The following graph shows a plot of the AMA’s shots from 160 yards. Notice how few balls landed past the target. 

By adding 10 yards to every shot hit by the AMA from 160 yards, the percentage of shots that would hit the green increases from 38.5% to 44.0% and the average distance from the target decreases from 71.8 feet to 60.6 feet.

This demonstrates that without changing technique and only changing strategy, the AMA can improve their performance. Before it is assumed that the AMA should simply “club up”, actual distances with each club should be determined.

Do you know your carry distance?

Does the AMA truly know how far each of their clubs carries? The strategy implemented to create 10 additional yards of carry could be from lack of knowledge regarding how far each club goes.

Course length, driver optimization, and course strategy are three key components to improving the performance of the AMA. Of course, playing shorter courses seems very obvious if you want to improve performance.

However, it is more the fact that golfers are playing courses that are too long relative to club speed and skill level. The following chart shows average handicap versus average club speed.

There is a very obvious relationship between these two variables. As club speed increases, those golfers tend to have lower handicaps. It is not to suggest that a golfer should simply play a shorter course to shoot better scores, but that a golfer should play a course length that is appropriate.

Optimizing a golfer’s distance with the driver (using their existing club speed) is an alternative way to effectively shortening a golf course.

With the AMA averaging 30 yards less than his potential, there is a lot of room for improvement. As he becomes more efficient, the AMA has shorter approach shots which lead to closer proximity to the hole. One suggestion could be to setup course length based on club speed and optimal driver efficiency.

For example, based on the average club speed of the AMA (93.4 mph) he should be able to hit his driver 255 yards (assuming certain ground conditions).

If a 50% greens in regulation (GIR) stat was desired for the AMA, then the approach shot would need to be approximately 140 yards. That means the par 4’s would average 395 yards. Going back to Torrey Pines South, that is somewhere between the Green and White tees. This course setup for the AMA is assuming a perfectly optimal drive by the golfer so in theory 395 yards would be a maximum length for the AMA based on 50% GIR.

Score better without changing your swing

Finally, course strategy is an improvement that can be made without having to change anything relating to the swing, technique, or other physical items.

By understanding simple averages and probabilities, a golfer can choose the best club and target for each shot. And this is where taking the TrackMan Combine and going through a “Find Your Distance” session is so valuable.

Yes, the TrackMan Combine data is extremely valuable for identifying weaknesses that can be improved, but it is just as (arguably more) important for identify strengths that the golfer can “play to” without having to spend any additional time practicing.

This instant gratification can be achieved through the 30-45 minute TrackMan Combine process! And for those golfers looking to make more substantial improvements to their game, the TrackMan Combine provides a roadmap for the improvement journey and accurate, immediate feedback at all checkpoints / stops along the way.

As golf instruction and coaching continue to move more towards “verifiable data” (what the instructor/coach knows) and further away from “guess and check” (what the instructor/coach thinks), we expect to see more improvement in the golf community. Acting upon real data, not opinion, takes a giant step in that direction.

You can use our TrackMan Locator  to find your local TrackMan certified and ask for a combine test.

Feel free to share your thoughts and experience in the comment section below.

62 comments

Great read with invaluable data and information. The facts are in front of us at instructors, now we must help convey your points to the masses. RJ

What was the actual value of swing speed group 115 mph+, since it shows 0%

Only 0.4% of the average male amateur population is above a club speed of 115 mph. The average for those golfers was 117 mph.

How can that be true. Almost every post I read on the internet the guys say they are swinging 125 mph. :-)

4 out of 1000 swings avg 117 mph? May I ask how many of them have 120 mph swing.

They must get “club speed” confused with “ball speed”

Cough Some people may exaggerate slightly ?

Hi My ball speed is with driver 195 km/h AND 160 km/h with a 6 iron Schaft = régular or ???? Can i play a pro v1, or a harder ball I wont more distance KIND regards Rene Claeys René

Dear Claeys, We highly recommend you to visit a TrackMan coach or fitter close to you, as there are many individual aspects to your question.

Please have a look at the TrackMan locator at this link; https://mytrackman.com/public/locator

Kind regards Niklas Bergdahl Support Manager

I am writing a dissertation at university and was wondering how you got all your data. Especially the average driving distance data. If it was published in a journal as well, please could you direct me to where I could find it. The title would be just as useful as well.

Thank you George

The data has been collected through the TrackMan Combine from over 10,000 golfers of all levels from around the world.

Now that you guys have more and more data from the combine tests are you going to adjust the hcap chart. In my opinion if your long game level is around hcap 0 you should score 76-80 . Hcap 5 will be around 68

kind regards

The data results given in this article are completely skewed. The AMA isn’t going to be achieving this max theoretical 255 yard drive very often. The professionals are going to hit the ball on the screws significantly more often than the AMA. Also, the dispersion for misses will be much wider for the AMA than the professional. The handicap system is equally misleading as the vast amount of amateur golfers don’t have a handicap, and if they did, they would be 36.4. I do agree the AMA should be playing much shorter courses than most presently do. While the length of the course is an important factor in scoring, more so is the challenging greens and required approach shots. The false fronts, forced carries, and deep protecting bunkers are too difficult for the AMA to deal with. It’s unrealistic for most amateurs to break 100 on courses that share the aforementioned conditions, which is what a lot of the courses of today present. The respective games the AMA and professional golfers play today are two entirely separate entities and should be treated as such.

Try a par 3 course (18 holes) of any length and compare your results to your handicap. Oddly, I bet you find that you do NOT score significantly better than your handicap even though the distances are short. I’ve tried this with many people and they shoot about their handicap. Granted, their handicaps are high, but it gives a lot of support to what Mr. Pelz has been telling us all these years.

I play off 8 at a championship course 7200 yards in the UK. I also play at a local par 3 course which holds the junior par 3 championship and I have shot 7 under around the par 3 course. I have shot level round the chammpionship course on occasion also though,

I agree with you 100%. I almost just quit playing golf because when I started 4 years ago I was playing golf with two people most of the time that were in the 1% of AMA’s . They were consistently breaking 80 if not the mid 70s and almost every time hit their drives relatively straight and 275 to over 300 yards without a problem and doing it from the blue or blacks . On top of that it drew me feeling like unless I can hit it 250 every time and at least shoot in the low 90s from the Blue I might as well just give golf up. Honestly many guys in this small % sort of make every other golfer feel like that . It was not until I got together with almost every other golfer played and realized most like as in 90% were just like me which was a work in progress. I spent a year playing by myself getting lessons finding a swing and just focused on having fun. I play from the white’s if it is more of a difficult or bigger course. IF a smaller easier course with less hazards I will play from blue but I am having a ton of fun and scoring between 90 and 97 consistently every time with an average drive of around 220 yards. Sometimes I will hit a 270 once or twice a round maybe and then two or three more at 240, but I will mix in a few bad ones at 190 with a hook or a slice and the rest will be at least 215 to 220. My average driver distance over 2 full rounds it 223 yards and that includes the one or two bad shots off the box that only goes 100 plus yards just above the red T’s . Everyone has one. It is fun and I find that I usually am scoring better than I would say 90% of the guys I play with now, hitting on average longer than 90% and I realize that that is because shooting in the 90s means in golf you are better than most so above average which unless you played since a teenager and have no other life and want to play 4 to 5 days a week or more that is all you can ask for. Too many people walking around either who hit one drive at 300 a round and the rest slice 100 yards that only go 200 straight trying to tell people how great they are at golf when in reality they take like 6 mulligans a round or guys that are actually really good think that they are the norm when in reality they are a small minority and golf would not even exist if it were not for guys like me .

hard to say for sure who was at fault in the beginning – i am 7 handicap – play with a friend who is 26-28 – i play blue he plays white – even when an extra player joins me on the blue he still plays white. we never play for money. i suggested he play white from the start and he is happy. why you did not work that out or your ‘friends’ did not suggest it I don’t know. FYI I hit my drive 240-250 he often hits is way past me from the whites. pleased to hear you are enjoying it now though.

My handicap is 24, but my driving (swing) works well. 200 to 225 yards. What is the speed?

I would recommend that you go visit a TrackMan certified coach, he/she will be able to help you with your club speed.

To find a TrackMan Certified coach, please see our locator: trackmangolf.com/locator

I recently had my swing “analyzed” and would like to share the results so that maybe someone could explain this in simpler terms. I’m a baseball coach who plays golf when I can. I have a terrible slice that knocks A LOT of yards off of my drive.

My average distance was 235-245. My longest drive was 270. On the longest drive, the projected distance(without the slice) was 332 yards. On average, all of the projected distances were 50-70 yards further without the slice.

Average club speed was 105-112, average ball speed was 139-152, and average rpm was between 4400-5100. Launch angle was between 17-22.

Can anyone give me any insight of what all these numbers mean?

Did your coach share the TrackMan report with you on mytrackman.com ? It will make it a lot easier to give a qualified answer if we have all the numbers :-)

Your ball speed is a little low which could indicate an off-center strike. Spin Rate is on the high side, which also could indicate an off-center strike, and probably a negative attack angle – both will shorten your distance. If you are a right handed player the slice and above numbers could be due to a heel strike.

Please have a look at this video about Smash Factor .

I shared the dispersion plot with our local club committee who are thinking of installing trackman after redeveloping several holes, and was asked questions along these lines: 1. What’s the proportion of shots wide of the mark by say 80 feet or more (or some width for which there is data) 2. Is the dispersion linear, eg at 176 yards is it the same proportion at 88 feet or more? 3. Can trackman info like the dispersion plot data be projected over a course layout?

who can answer that please

Hi Gerry. Thanks for the post. The questions you ask are great questions, but unfortunately that data is not readily available. Our TrackMan Combine database would contain the answer to those questions, but it would require significant work to pull that information out. The plan is to include this type of information within TrackMan University in the future, but that is likely many months away at this point. Sorry that I can not be of better help right now.

My problem is the amount of power i have and need to work on half wings. My taylermade aero burner average distance is 330 yards on a good day 364 yards. My 8 iron 190yards 5iron 252 yards Pw is 150yrds And loft 56 at 120yrds Loft 110 yrds How do i control the power to less distance? Or should i take control on the distance i have?

I suppose you have the biggest and fastest car as well ?

Bilan, I think you should rub one out before you get to first tee box. It should make you a little

Very interesting but sort of depressing article. I’m a 9 handicap wanting to get into the low single digits. I’m 46 years old and don’t think my 95 mph swing speed will increase that dramatically without throwing rhythm off.

I’m wondering if there are outliers here?. And also wondering how LPGA fits into this chart. I seem to have the same speed as pro women and they are playing the same distances that I am but scoring way way lower with a game built from precision over speed.

You dont need to be depressed your swing speed is high enough to play very good golf. Mine isnt that much higher and i hit driver 275 yards. You just have to be fit correctly and learn how to deliver the club better to the ball

and i shoot low 70s and i hit the ball 245 yards with ZERO roll in Thailand – so it can be done. work on your short game. get up and down 3 out of the 5 times you miss the green makes all the difference

This is something I’m finding out at a 14 handicap. I’m your AMA although I’m trending down. As you can guess my improvement has now become dependent on driver efficiency and distance. I have been working around that weakness by using shorter clubs off the tee but it leaves me with much longer second shots.

Made more swing improvement of late and starting to control my driver more. When it’s hit well I have hit enough times in the 260-270 range so I’m probably in that 95 mph swing speed range. As the previous poster said I’m 43 so won’t be Bubba Watson anytime soon. The way forward has to be more tighter averages with the driver maximising my best yardage from the swing speed I have. There are golfers out there who are scratch only hitting the ball 200-250.

Anyone remember young Guan the 14 year old at Augusta he was so small he could only drive it 250 but did alright.

I am a 35 year old AMA at a 15. I have played golf for 22 years. This philosophy has been a revelation to me. I work in the industry and frequently play with low handicaps who tease me into playing longer yardage (they assume at 6’3″ 250 I bomb it) my home course is 7400 from the tips, and this frustratingly puts my score in the mid 90s. After reading this article I did more research and discovered I should be playing nearly 1200 yards shorter, and doing so without shame. I’ve played four rounds since reading this, and shot 81, 83, 79, and 78. Including a personal best one under 35 for nine. My teachers are always trying to get me to change my swing to generate club head speed, but this consistently leaves me frustrated and physically sore. Once you except your limitations, you can get out and enjoy the game we LOVE instead of loathing it.

My average driving distance is 240 but IF I can make a shot in the sweet spot (Stars Aligned after a long Prayer) I can go 290 to 300 measured on the golf course. Crazy thing is I hit my 3 wood off the tee about 250 yards.

I have completely lost my iron swing due to injury and need a swing coach as well as does your program cover this as well? I carry my 8 iron about 158 yards when I’m hitting it good (see above). My average club separation is about 15 yards.

I think this is very interesting but misleading. Most golfers I know are happy to drive the ball 200 yards and keep it in the fairway.

This analysis seems to be for elite athletes.

How many average golfers drive the ball 250 yards and keep it in the fairway?

I once read that if all golfers had to count every stroke they took, and appropriate penalty shots, only 10 percent could legitimately break a 100. My experience suggests that this is true.

Commented here a while ago I’m actually not sure before I used GPS through my mobile whether I hit it further than I do now. Most of my longer clubs only just creep above the 200 yd mark. I have the occasional outlier above 250 but that’s rare. I actually feel I get more out irons than I do the woods. I hit a green today which was 163 so pulled a 6 iron landed on back part of the green 10 yds past the flag. I’ve hit greens from 210 out with a 20 degree hybrid. I’ve tried lots of different woods shafts and lengths but seem to reach a ceiling on distance. My home course is around 6200 so I can work around not bombing it off the tee but it is perplexing to me.

Thanks this will help my golf game so much now. All that strength comes from the lower body. Its important to turn your body to get that extra speed.

What about the balls we use. Is a soft ball for club head speed of 90 MPH with the driver better than a hard ball?

I’m 65 years old. Club head speed is around 90 MPH giving me a distance of 214 yrds. I should be getting more distance on this club head speed right? wrong?

Well I certainly feel hood about how I played when i did. I am disabled now and dont play at all but i had a spinal fusion and two rods put in my back when i was a teenager. My full swing with a driver was anout ewual to an average guys 9 iron turn. Yet I hit my driver 230 yards to what they say is average, 214. And that was 12 years ago. I didnt start playing until i was 31 and it was over by 42 yet my handicap was 12. But i attribute most of that to playing with a best friend who was a scratch golfer and showed me theres no need to take longer than 2 hours to play 18 holes. (Unimpededof course, because we always were able to play during the week). God how I loved playing golf. Especially when they was no other golfers in sight. Sorry for the ramble.

Dear friend, do anyone here user Taylormade RSI 1 Irons. I need to know few things before buying

I think the difference is practice, practice and more practice. Very unfortunately most of us are too busy with other things we need to do.

Exactly, I had the same perception in mind too. Well, they say that If you practice more and more you’ll get better and better.

What a great read with invaluable data and information. With all the new technology that is now available in Drivers since this article came out, do you plan on updating the information. I think it would be awesome to see if any of the numbers change due to the new developments.

I often feel articles such as this are skewed. Torrey Pines South, huh? That’s a course representative of the average golfer? My time spent on the driving range tells me there are a lot of guys hitting 100 yards, 125, 150, 175…a few hitting 190….and an even smaller number hitting over 200. Sure, I see guys hitting 250-300 yards, but they are far from the norm. I bet your average golfer on your average course doesn’t hit more than 160-175. Why gather data from an elite course where people “line up” to play when that is far from representative of what most people are doing? How about heading out to Wedgefield in Georgetown, SC? Or Fox Hollow in Baltimore? Or the public course in Lenoir, NC? Get off the elite courses and look at the ones where people are paying maybe $45 to play, not $200+. It’s a whole different story.

This is really intersting reading and I could not agree more with the finding your distance principal. All too many golfers go to the course and hit every shot in the hope it’s the best shot they’ve ever hit. Learn to play your game, but keep pushing yourself where sensible and on the range, and you’ll enjoy your round more and start playing much more consistent golf.

Do you have Average Female Amature driver swing speed? Is it around 25-35% less then the AMA group?

Its about 20% less when comparing PGA vs LPGA. My hunch its even bigger for AFA vs AMA?

You can check the combine driver stats here: https://mytrackman.com/#combine

beginer level female golfer how to to benefit ths..is this correct this tracker..

Love all of this data and seeing exactly what the correlation is between the data and player performance! Thanks!

Distance is great. There isn’t anybody who wouldn’t like to be able to hit the ball further. However, the vast majority of the time I spend with my students that would fall into the AMA category is spent on working out the kinks in their swing (to help them hit straighter shots more consistently) and helping them with better contact with the golf ball. To me, working on improving distance happens only after they’ve advanced beyond the AMA category. I guess what I’m saying is if you don’t hit the ball straight consistently and you don’t make good, clean contact consistently, it would be silly to focus on things like swing speed/distance.

Greater distance…the eternal quest for golfers. I can say that Trackman is second to none, and it’s always my first recommendation to others. The challenge is, improving your distance is a slow and arduous process. It takes persistence and painstaking practice to regularly do drills designed to help improve your swing speed, not to mention the constant measuring to ensure you are in fact improving your swing speed. It takes a detailed plan and it takes time, and this is why I think the improvement of AMAs isn’t as impressive as it could be.

wow great guide

The first chart, with the club speed distribution, is that only for hcp 14-15 golfers?

Hi I have always had an out to in swing until recent. Following 3 Trackman lessons and 4 Trackman practice sessions (and my own research) i have moved my swing path nearly 5 degree in to out. My question is my average D is +5.3, 6I is +3.5 and 8I is +2.1. Although early days yet is there a general reason for the different results in club path. I have always wanted a push draw and now i can see the light in the tunnel.

Is here any benefit ideas about beginners level women, what you say?

What was the actual value of swing speed group 105 mph+, since it shows 0%

Do you have Average Female Amature driver swing speed? Is it around 25-35% less than the AMA group?

Thanks to this impressive article, they will help more and more those who want to play golf. This informative information was more helpful for golfers.

Thank You !

I love your article and content too.

I feel like a lot of AMs sacrifice strike for the extra 1-2 mph which ultimately leads to less distance. Does Trackman update this data each year? Thanks for posting.

My total yardage for my 7 iron is 190, my ball speed is 119 mph. Does that make sense? Should my ball speed be faster based on the distance I’m getting. Even my 4 iron ball speed max is 137 and I’m getting 235 yards. I’m a 42 year old 5’9″ and been playing golf since I was 35. I appreciate your thoughts, great article. Thanks

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What is your driver dispersion? – no really…

By PracticeSwinger June 3, 2021 in Instruction & Academy

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Short disclaimer – got back into the game thanks to 2020; been able to play once or twice a week in the summer time and practice indoor last winter… single cap (trending in the right direction)… decent ball striker and practicing to gain speed/distance with the driver as I’ve been moving back tees to not only play the short iron approach game… stats shows that I hit it on average 255 carry, good swing speed so smash is more of the issue with heel shots (swing flaws that I’ve been working on daily for half a year)… stock shot is a fade; misses are dead pulls and slices (swing has been posted before and it’s not really the idea being this post but can post it again if need be)… that results in a dispersion of 55-60 yds… and I’m thinking that number has to be high – but everywhere I look (Decade or other studies) it seems to be right in line (although with higher carry numbers - which means lower 'angle' dispersion)… hence this thread… realistically, do you guys and gals hit it way straighter?

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June 3, 2021

No, what I'm talking about is done by Pro's every day and has been for decades. Use one shape, play it. What's a better use of effort? Learn how to shrink dispersion 20 yards or learn how to take out

Give or take..  I hit 3w off the tee btw  

June 4, 2021

You aim so the center of your pattern is aligned with where you want the average of your shots to end up. You consider the hazards and the risks of missing on each side. On some holes that may have yo

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As far as I could tell in my preliminary look at it, DECADE had a real simplistic approach to bounding all points. It generally just drew an oval around the scatter plot and found a geometric centroid. 

I would think you'd want to take weighted averages (rather than a geometric centroid) and maybe even throw out catastrophic misses that had a tendency to skew the data and all that, especially when it doesn't matter whether a horrific hook is 1-ft OB or 30-yards OB. Some misses (data points) are just not worth sorting. So again, I think DECADE could (and should) take a more sophisticated and statistical approach but maybe it does? To me, it seemed more like an Info-Gap / Robust-optimal approach but that's really getting heady. 

Anyhow, I know I have a great deal of dispersion with my driver for the simple fact that I always try to curve the ball (fade) more than necessary in order to get it in play. Any time I start drawing the driver I get real uncomfortable so I make a lot of exaggerated swings to keep the ball in play figuring that there's little difference between a 10-yd fade and a 20-yd fade. 

I know I give up some distance on my off days essentially playing a cut-shot as opposed to a straighter ball, but I believe it's part of what keeps my scoring on bad days reigned in. 

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Looks about right if you take the bad snap hooks and block slices out. My target window is about half that range as I don't plan for bad misses that just creates doubt or drives you crazy.

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5 minutes ago, MelloYello said: As far as I could tell in my preliminary look at it, DECADE had a real simplistic approach to bounding all points. It generally just drew an oval around the scatter plot and found a geometric centroid.    I would think you'd want to take weighted averages (rather than a geometric centroid) and maybe even throw out catastrophic misses that had a tendency to skew the data and all that, especially when it doesn't matter whether a horrific hook is 1-ft OB or 30-yards OB. Some misses (data points) are just not worth sorting. So again, I think DECADE could (and should) take a more sophisticated and statistical approach but maybe it does? To me, it seemed more like an Info-Gap / Robust-optimal approach but that's really getting heady.    Anyhow, I know I have a great deal of dispersion with my driver for the simple fact that I always try to curve the ball (fade) more than necessary in order to get it in play. Any time I start drawing the driver I get real uncomfortable so I make a lot of exaggerated swings to keep the ball in play figuring that there's little difference between a 10-yd fade and a 20-yd fade.    I know I give up some distance on my off days essentially playing a cut-shot as opposed to a straighter ball, but I believe it's part of what keeps my scoring on bad days reigned in. 

I'm definitely with you on that one, having a Masters in Stats, I clearly see the usefulness of weighted averages, outliers... dispersion can be 60 yards - but if 59 shots are 10 yds left of target and only one is 50 yds right... you get the idea...

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm way out the planet with dispersion and should focus exclusively on smash; speed later... or if 255 carry - 60yds ish dispersion is within the norm and gain speed (while still working on a good swing sequence obviously)

Better swing will get better smash and smaller dispersion

4 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said: Looks about right if you take the bad snap hooks and block slices out. My target window is about half that range as I don't plan for bad misses that just creates doubt or drives you crazy.

Thanks for that - seems like we have the same mindset... and can definitely play/manage most holes that way... occasional outlier that has us scrambling to get back into play (with a 'let's to this' attitude)

1 minute ago, MtlJayMan said: I'm definitely with you on that one, having a Masters in Stats, I clearly see the usefulness of weighted averages, outliers... dispersion can be 60 yards - but if 59 shots are 10 yds left of target and only one is 50 yds right... you get the idea...   I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm way out the planet with dispersion and should focus exclusively on smash; speed later... or if 255 carry - 60yds ish dispersion is within the norm and gain speed (while still working on a good swing sequence obviously)

Hey! Well, I'm a lowly structural engineer so you stats geeks are way above me, haha. I only encountered some of it in grad school where split time on some V&V and decision-making research. I have several friends in it though. 

I don't have any official info sadly. I'm in the same ball-park with 260-ish carry, but I'm with you. 60-yds of dispersion seems high, but again it's probably a function of keeping your extreme outliers on either side, right? 

1 minute ago, MelloYello said:   Hey! Well, I'm a lowly structural engineer so you stats geeks are way above me, haha. I only encountered some of it in grad school where split time on some V&V and decision-making research. I have several friends in it though.    I don't have any official info sadly. I'm in the same ball-park with 260-ish carry, but I'm with you. 60-yds of dispersion seems high, but again it's probably a function of keeping your extreme outliers on either side, right?     

Exactly... as I just posted before; target is obviously a smaller window :  seems like we have the same mindset... and can definitely play/manage most holes that way... occasional outlier that has us scrambling to get back into play (with a 'let's to this' attitude)

I am a 9 capper who just recently started hitting the ball way straighter(playing fade versus a hook). And I play a lot of rounds on my GC2 and can miss left or right by about 25 yards.

So max dispersion is around 50 yards, but most of my balls finish about 10-15 yards right of my target line

17 minutes ago, Three_Jack said: I am a 9 capper who just recently started hitting the ball way straighter(playing fade versus a hook). And I play a lot of rounds on my GC2 and can miss left or right by about 25 yards.   So max dispersion is around 50 yards, but most of my balls finish about 10-15 yards right of my target line

Thanks for that - seems like we are in the same boat (even though I must be spraying it a tad more; and working on a better smash)... carry in the 250ish range?

Just now, MtlJayMan said: Thanks for that - seems like we are in the same boat (even though I must be spraying it a tad more; and working on a better smash)... carry in the 250ish range?

Yeah, before my swing change I was easily able to hook a ball off the planet. Even though fairways are generally I think around 30-35 yards?, typically, you can miss into the rough 10-15 yards and be just fine right. I play a ton of different courses and have found there usually is at least 50 yards to work with between s*** and s***.

I carry the ball 280 on average(160 ballspeed, 14 launch, 2000ish spin). Pretty optimal, so I think if your carrying it 250+ and still around that 50 yard range(left to right), then you are doing pretty well off the tee for the vast majority of courses.

Last year I got down to a 6.5, but I really don't know how cause it felt like I could hit my driver OB at any second. This year, 13 rounds in and havent had a score over 85(78 is my low), so my game is WAY more consistent cause I not hitting balls off the planet so keeping big numbers off the scorecard.

Better wedge game and putting(i may be the worst putter on the planet...) and I should be in the 70s a lot more.

Are you hitting super foul balls often? If not, I think your just fine or at least on the right track.

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Well based on Arccos my average dispersion is 20 yards but if I look at my two outliers it's about 100, lol. I'm a 24 index and don't hit driver super far, so that may be one reason it's not a wider range for me.

I'm a 2 handicap but my scores are 100% determined by how my driver is working that round. I have mid 170s ball speed and generally have a left miss but am prone to a big block/fade. The left and right dispersion between my bad shots can be 150-200 yards (lol) but almost all of them are hit on the screws and carry in that 280-300yd range. A good driving day = even par while a bad driving day on a penal course means 80+. 

I would think the one-way miss vs the two-way is more important than actual dispersion. If I know I can unload down the left side and know it won't hook, or down the right and not block out, if it's 25 or 50 yards of dispersion, it's good. My issue is I can be either, depending the day.

42 minutes ago, Three_Jack said: Are you hitting super foul balls often? If not, I think your just fine or at least on the right track.

Not really (at least I don't think so)... finding 7-8 fairways + 3-4 rough + 1ish recovery + 1ish dead pull or big slice... so a couple shots per round there... poor up/down % and more putts than I want are those 5ish other shots that I need to cut to lower that index

6 minutes ago, Nard_S said: I would think the one-way miss vs the two-way is more important than actual dispersion. If I know I can unload down the left side and know it won't hook, or down the right and not block out, if it's 25 or 50 yards of dispersion, it's good. My issue is I can be either, depending the day.

Not exactly mutually exclusive per se. At least with driver. I'd love to have a tighter dispersion with driver but when trouble is on both side of the fairway, with the one way miss you can pick your poison.

13 minutes ago, Nard_S said: I would think the one-way miss vs the two-way is more important than actual dispersion. If I know I can unload down the left side and know it won't hook, or down the right and not block out, if it's 25 or 50 yards of dispersion, it's good. My issue is I can be either, depending the day.

A One-Way miss isn't a real thing in golf.

You will miss both sides...

For example.. you play a draw? So you aim right of your target to account for your curve... Ok.. well you didn't close the face enough and pushed it right.

The next swing you over-drew it left of your target... 

That's a two-way miss... 

7 minutes ago, Three_Jack said: A One-Way miss isn't a real thing in golf.   You will miss both sides...   For example.. you play a draw? So you aim right of your target to account for your curve... Ok.. well you didn't close the face enough and pushed it right.   The next swing you over-drew it left of your target...    That's a two-way miss...         

The concept of the one way miss if that you ball only curves in one direction. It can't go the other way. Whatever you do, the ball cannot cross the line. It's darn near impossible for a drawer to have a one way miss.

8 minutes ago, Three_Jack said: A One-Way miss isn't a real thing in golf.   You will miss both sides..

I think it is. On percentage, probability basis it's valid and practiced all the time. If you can take one side out 80% of time it's a lot better than flipping a coin and aiming down the middle.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

I just checked my Arccos data and it says my average shot dispersion is 20 yards with driver, but I'm not sure the average is very helpful. Looking at the "outliers" my dispersion is 50 yards left or right. These are the shots that hurt and would love to cut down on those. Like some other posters, my driver is the most impactful club in my bag in that it can easily ruin a round for me. If I drive it well, I'll be near par. If not, buckle up

26 minutes ago, Nard_S said: I think it is. On percentage, probability basis it's valid and practiced all the time. If you can take one side out 80% of time it's a lot better than flipping a coin and aiming down the middle.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

On a "percentage, probability" basis.. you will miss both sides of your target. 

Go hit a bunch of balls and aim straight at a target. Unless you hit a straight ball, you likely will have a dispersion on one side of said target.

The middle of that dispersion is where you should aim for your pattern, correct? But now that you have accounted for your aiming, you will miss on both sides of that.

I think what you may be more talking about is some catastrophic miss thats off the planet.. which is different and not good either...

15 minutes ago, dvq9654 said: I just checked my Arccos data and it says my average shot dispersion is 20 yards with driver, but I'm not sure the average is very helpful. Looking at the "outliers" my dispersion is 50 yards left or right. These are the shots that hurt and would love to cut down on those. Like some other posters, my driver is the most impactful club in my bag in that it can easily ruin a round for me. If I drive it well, I'll be near par. If not, buckle up

Thanks for that info... it's anecdotal, but we seem to get rapidly to a consensus on; a lot of shots that gets in that 20-30ish yds window - and the occasional outlier that get's the dispersion to 50-60ish... and when these 'outliers' happen more often than usual in a round... watch out...

According to Arccos, not great lol 

Fairways are over rated though IMO and missing just 1ft off the fairway obviously is a miss but usually isn't a huge deal.

9 minutes ago, Three_Jack said: think what you may be more talking about is some catastrophic miss thats off the planet.. which is different and not good either...

No, what I'm talking about is done by Pro's every day and has been for decades. Use one shape, play it. What's a better use of effort? Learn how to shrink dispersion 20 yards or learn how to take out one side of fairway, hands down the latter is a better use of time and will yield better results on the course. Decade says pro's have a 60 yard window. How are we going to do better? 

29 minutes ago, Three_Jack said:   Go hit a bunch of balls and aim straight at a target. Unless you hit a straight ball, you likely will have a dispersion on one side of said target.   The middle of that dispersion is where you should aim for your pattern, correct? But now that you have accounted for your aiming, you will miss on both sides of that.  

 You're aiming at the extreme edge of the cone and the ball works towards the other edge if you have a one way miss. If you ha e a two way miss you aim at the middle and hope for the best.

1 hour ago, Nard_S said: I would think the one-way miss vs the two-way is more important than actual dispersion. If I know I can unload down the left side and know it won't hook, or down the right and not block out, if it's 25 or 50 yards of dispersion, it's good. My issue is I can be either, depending the day.

This has been me all season thus far.  I don't have actual data, but I think my dispersion is probably what you all are referencing.  I'll push fade or draw it depending on the day.  Some days I'll trust it and aim down the opposite side.  Other days I am center and pray.  hahaha

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I've always love that ' one side of the fairway ' debate...

• on one side guys saying, that is define by making sure your ball will curve only one way ... 
• on the other side, we got guys saying... I know it curves only one way - but, by definition, 50% of your shots will inevitably end up on the left side of your central end point (not your target line!)  and 50% on the other side

I guess then, knowing that, is - where do you aim?!

Let's look at that pic... that graph shows a 70 yards dispersion... 40 yds left  and 30 yds right... with most of the draws/pulls going left and the occasional push/block on the right... if you got a 35 yds wide fairway without any hazard/OB closeby... I'm trying to figure out if the target line is indeed a good aim point (and thus the ride side of the fairway?)... while the central end point is probably 15 yds left of the target line in that graph...

So, even though the ball only curves one way... it'll miss the fairway on both sides, by definition - because you got a 70 yds window dispersion, with a 35 yds fairway... and if you only wanted to miss 'on one side of it', your fairway % would obviously be lower than optimal...

Taking one side out of play is simply about avoiding a double cross.

The answer to better golf is work your butt off and learn how to hit it better, farther, and make more putts.

I'll also agree that fairways are generally overrated.  Only one course I play has rough that is thick enough to be a severe penalty.  Most places I'll just lose spin and might get a flyer.  If I always had the dispersion that was posted a few back I would definitely line up on the left side of the tee box and aim at the right edge of the fairway. 

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Popular PGA Tour Player Is 'Sneaky Fan' of Detroit Lions

John maakaron | jun 27, 2024.

• Detroit Lions

Several members of the PGA Tour, including Joel Dahmen, are rooting for the Detroit Lions to follow up on their successful playoff run in 2023 with a Super Bowl win this upcoming NFL season.

Dahmen became a fan favorite after being featured in the popular Netflix Series 'Full Swing,' which told in-depth stories of several members of the Tour.

"I'm a sneaky Lions fan," Dahmen told WXYZ-TV, prior to playing with Oakland Golden Grizzlies head coach Greg Kampe in a Pro-Am event. "Just because they've been so bad for so long. We gotta get a Super Bowl to Detroit here."

Playing golf professionally has given several golfers perspective on just how difficult it is to win consistently.

"I think in golf you rarely win. It's really hard to win. And the Lions have never won," said Dahmen. "We also have Ryan Brehm, who everyone loves out here, he's a Michigan guy. So yeah, I think the Lions last year, they had a good run and hopefully this year is the year."

The Rocket Mortgage Classic, the only PGA Tour event to occur in Detroit , takes place at Detroit Golf Club from June 27-30.

Major champions in the field include Stewart Cink, Zach Johnson, and Gary Woodland.

Joel Dahmen and Oakland's Greg Kampe shared laughs — and love for the Lions. The duo teed off together at Detroit's Rocket Mortgage Classic pro-am. @KampeOU | @Joel_Dahmen | @RocketClassic pic.twitter.com/xSkx3xIW85 — Brad Galli (@BradGalli) June 27, 2024

Additional reading

1.) Terrion Arnold Expected to Have 'Instant-Impact' for Lions

2.) 'It's All Football': Aidan Hutchinson Discusses Offseason Plans, Goals

3.) Q&A: WWE Star The Miz Talks Lions' Super Bowl Hopes, Campbell's Aggressiveness

4.) Amik Robertson Film Review: Physical CB Fits Lions' Style Perfect

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John Maakaron has covered Detroit Sports since 2013. Brings a vast array of experience covering the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions, Michigan Wolverines, Michigan State Spartans, Detroit Mercy Titans, and Oakland University Golden Grizzlies. John brings a wealth of sports broadcast experience. In 2013, John had the vision to establish the Detroit Sports Podcast Network. Has recorded over 3000 podcasts analyzing Detroit Sports. In 2019, Sports Illustrated Media Group, a historical sports media outlet, partnered with Detroit Sports Podcast to provide daily Lions content for their growing and expanding digital media outlet. Our Lions content can also be read in the newspaper at The Oakland  Passionate about Detroit Sports and it is reflected in his coverage of the local teams!

Cameron Young shoots 59 Saturday at Travelers Championship

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CROMWELL, Conn. — Cameron Young’s morning started like any other. He woke up (too early for his liking), made his way to TPC River Highlands and grabbed a coffee. He saw his physio before heading to the range about an hour before his 9:45 a.m. tee time.

His routine was normal. Everything felt the same. The one difference? “I chunked a few less on the range than I did yesterday,” Young said.

The day ended unlike any in Young’s career.

Young still finished one shot short of the TPC River Highlands course record. Jim Furyk shot the only 58 in PGA TOUR history in the final round of the 2016 Travelers.

“It's certainly pretty cool. It's fun to have your name on a list that short,” said Young, 13-under overall.

It was a remarkable, unexpected Saturday surge. TPC River Highlands is known to give up low scores, joining Greenbrier as the only two TOUR stops to yield two sub-60 scores. That it happened Saturday with soft, benign conditions was not surprising. The surprise was that it came from Young. Before shooting 66 in the second round of the Travelers, Young had carded 10 consecutive rounds of par or worse. His T9 at the Masters in April was his last top-30 finish. His range session on Saturday didn’t feel great, a continuation of those less-than-stellar feels. But as the round started, “things just started coming down close to the hole.” Or sometimes straight into the hole.

Young made two eagles, neither of which came on the par-5s. Young holed out for eagle on the par-4 third hole, landing his pitching-wedge approach from 142 yards to within feet of the cup before it dropped in for a deuce.

Cameron Young holes out from 142 yards for eagle at Travelers

Later, he drove the green on the 280-yard par-4 15th, hitting 3-iron off the tee that landed short of the green, slowly trundled onto the putting surface and stopped 4 feet from the hole. He converted that for another eagle.

Cameron Young's awesome tee shot leads to eagle at Travelers

Those moments of brilliance were surrounded by occasional moments of erraticism. Young hit just six fairways and was forced to attack TPC River Highlands’ small greens from out of position. Players have spent much of the week harping on the importance of driving accuracy as it had been hard to control shots from the thick rough, but Young had no such issues. He hit 15 greens and converted two of his birdies after hitting in the rough off the tee. Fittingly, Young had to scramble at the 18th to secure his spot in history.

Standing in thick rough left of the fairway and just in front of a bunker, 117 yards from the pin, Young called back to a similar shot from the 16th hole on Friday. He could only advance the ball about 100 yards in that situation, but it came out straight. If he tried to get any more out of this shot, Young wasn’t sure where it would end up. He took his medicine, hit his approach 101 yards up near the front of the green, and focused on the up-and-down.

“I've been chipping really, really well the last couple weeks. That was one that I was really felt pretty good over and it came out a touch slow,” Young said. “I just mishit it.”

Cameron Young dials in approach to set up birdie at Travelers

The result was a 10-foot right-to-left sliding par putt. Young dripped the putt in, emphatically pumping his fist as it dropped.

Young made more than his fair share of 50/50 putts. Using a new blacked-out Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 prototype for the first time this week, Young holed 115 feet of putts, gaining more than two strokes on the greens.

“I would have preferred not to have to make a 10-footer, but I did and thankfully it went in.”

The cadence to Young’s 59 was touch-and-go. The round started blazing. He made birdie on Nos. 1 and 2 before holing out for eagle at the third. He poured in a 20-foot birdie putt on the fourth to move to 5-under for the day. Three straight pars kept it from a potentially record-breaking front-nine, but Young added birdies at Nos. 8 and 9 to shoot 28. At that point, it was all systems go to sub-60. Instead, Young made three pars to start the back nine, including the 11th, where he missed a 12-foot birdie putt. He birdied the gettable par-5 13th but still appeared to be running out of holes. Then he hit a towering 3-iron on the 15th that cozied up next to the hole and reinvigorated Young’s charge.

“I've hit that club everywhere and I finally hit one just straight at it,” Young said. “I think I said something to the effect of, ‘just give me all the right bounces.’ And it did. I mean, where that ended up would be a great pitch from the front of the green. So it's, you know, a really good swing and a great strike, but for it to end up somewhere that you can basically tap it in for two is not likely. You could hit that same shot a hundred more times and you would get two on that plateau right here.

The eagle at 15 moved Young to 10-under. He missed a 7-foot birdie putt on the par-3 16th, but hit another superb iron from the 17th fairway that stopped 5 feet from the hole. Young calmly converted the putt, stepping to pick the ball up before it even reached the hole.

“I didn't think about it too much kind of the middle that have back nine,” Young said of the possibility of 59. “Just because it didn't really feel all of a sudden like anything was going in after 10, 11, 12. Then, all of a sudden, I had a putt for 59 on 18.”